Would you let the council know that someone was committing disability benefit fraud?

[givemeawobble]

I'm conflicted.

This is a family member, I don't want to give to much away. I've changed username too.

I have no experience of benefits (apart from child benefit)
This person is claiming to be disabled to get their rent paid BUT are subletting their house out to multiple people ... they are making a considerable amount of money.

I won't lie, I don't like this person and it grinds on me that they are so smug and boastful about what they are doing.

Do I just ignore? Or tell someone?

The phenomenon of "grassing on your neighbours and friends" is a successful divide and conquer strategy of government. It breaks down communities. Stay out of it.

i'd report it without a second thought. esp.the sub letting the cheeky fucker !

Your family member is not allowed to sublet, and is doing so, "to multiple people ... they are making a considerable amount of money." That is the crux of the matter, not that their rent is paid for by benefits.

Yeas, I would absolutely report this to their landlord. The 'multiple people' are being exploited and are probably badly overcrowded, this is no way to live. I hope your relative loses their tenancy and it goes to someone who needs it instead.

You do know that benefits are likely to be stopped while the investigation is carried out? Leaving people without money for basic needs, mounting debt etc and the effect that has on the persons MH.

Malicious reporting when there’s nothing going on is morally wrong. But OP seems certain he’s subletting while claiming for that property. If she has reason to believe that’s the case then she’s right to report. If she just fancied causing hassle to someone when there’s zero reason to believe they’re doing something wrong then that would be immoral. But that’s not what’s happening here. If she has solid reason to believe he’s doing this she should of course report.

If his benefits get stopped it’s hardly OP’s fault, it’s his fault for committing fraud in the first place! Please don’t tell me you think someone reporting a crime is somehow more culpable for the consequences on the offender than the offender themselves Fission? That’s like saying if you know your neighbour assaulted someone and reported them to the police it’s wrong of you to report them cos of the consequences for the neighbour.

And there are good reasons to report: like others have said, people like this make it much harder for everyone else to claim. There isn’t an endless pot of money. Why should someone else miss out because he’s found a way to claim something he isn’t entitled to?

No. But please help me to do something about Richard Branson or Costa theft of the tax they owe but pay sweet fuck all.

BloodyDisgrace are you suggesting that an individual committing theft isn’t a problem while a corporation committing theft is? That doesn’t make much sense. Surely if you’re against the likes of Costa not paying tax and in your view stealing from the state you’re against stealing from the state when others do it too? Neither are right.

I vote labour btw, and I’m a leftie. But surely there comes a point where as a society we say we’re not okay with theft/fraud and see it as our duty to report it? It’s not exactly a private matter, it affects everyone as it’s public money. If OP shops this guy and he faces consequences as a result that’s one of the risks he chose to take when commuting fraud.

Btw I wouldn’t judge anyone for not reporting, I can totally see why someone might just say it’s not their business or not wanna get involved and that’s fair enough, my points are more in response to people who think it’s wrong to report. I don’t get that view at all unless it’s congruent with someone’s belief that theft/fraud aren’t wrong.

How is he pretending to be disabled?

Like I said in my original post, I don't claim to have much knowledge about the benefit system,
What I do know is that this person really likes to brag about how he gets everything paid for and has his 'business' to make him extra.
He talks like he's Del Boy and it makes my skin crawl.

The subletting is not aloud but the family inside are obviously in need of a roof over their heads. This is where I'm conflicted. A big part of me says stay out of it and avoid this person at all costs... then another part says why should he be aloud to get away with it?

I'm trying not to give too many details away in terms of disability as I don't want to be to identifiable.

Yes, do report. Don't feel bad. He sounds very unlikable anyway.

I would 100% report the subletting. If for any reason this person stops paying the rent to the actual landlord it could mean the family living there end up getting kicked out despite, in their minds, having paid their rent.

The phenomenon of "grassing on your neighbours and friends" is a successful divide and conquer strategy of government. It breaks down communities. Stay out of it

I don’t think that’s really fair to say. Someone else might hold the view that in a community it’s your responsibility not to commit crimes that impact others, and not to fraudulently take more from the public pot of money than you’re entitled to (which could be needed by someone else who is genuine). Community doesn’t mean minding your own business when you see something happening that is illegal/immoral/has detrimental consequences on other. It can mean understanding that nobody is an island and expecting others to act in good faith/holding people accountable so that practices like this don’t go on unchecked. A council house being rented out illegally for financial gain by someone who already has a home isn’t in a community’s best interests when there are plenty of people without homes

What I do know is that this person really likes to brag about how he gets everything paid for and has his 'business' to make him extra.
He talks like he's Del Boy and it makes my skin crawl.

He’s a bit dumb isn’t it. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already been reported, he’s not exactly discrete.

Whether you report or not is up to you but you’d be 100% within your rights/morally justified to do so. Which I guess is what you wanted to know?

I never understand why people on MN are so against reporting benefit fraud. It's simple, you do something wrong you should pay the price. Imagine all those people who actually need the money. It's disgraceful that it's even a question. Report him regardless of whether he's your best friend or worst enemy.

I don’t think they are really Custard :) this thread for example, the vast majority seem to be anti fraud. Only a few are trying to argue it’d be better to look the other way

You do know that benefits are likely to be stopped while the investigation is carried out? Leaving people without money for basic needs, mounting debt etc and the effect that has on the persons MH

OMG, that' awful! I assumed it would be "innocent until proven guilty" and that damages/repayment could be sought it a scam was uncovered, but only then. How can this be allowed?

Of course you should report.

People can work.and receive disability benefits OP also disability benefits such as PIP and DLA are non means tested so.it wouldn't matter how much somebody does or doesn't earn it they meet the criteria , it's the sub letting that's the issue .

Btw, while it’s true benefits can be stopped during investigation if it’s felt there is enough evidence to suggest it’s not a malicious referral, only some types of benefit can be stopped. And disability living allowance isn’t one of them

There is so much ignorance regarding benefits, housing benefits etc already on this thread.

If your relative is subletting, regardless of where he lives, he is committing fraud.

DLA & PIP eligibility does not enable access to housing benefits because they are not means tested. You can work and be in receipt of these. However, if the claimant is in receipt of DLA/PIP there are additional premiums payable, such as increased housing benefit or council tax reduction when a child in in receipt of DLA or the disabled adult has a sleep-in carer. The rules are complex. If he is on UC or income based ESA he is entitled to claim housing benefits IF he fits the rigorous eligibility criteria.

Don't confuse your relatives alleged housing benefit fraud with any disability benefits he may be receiving. Unless he claims means tested benefits he cannot claim housing benefits.

To claim PIP, ESA or UCs new style ESA the claimant has to provide recent relevant evidence of their illness or disability (hospital letters, physio, MH evidence etc). The application process is thorough and rigorous, and extremely stressful as it isn't always easy to get this evidence.

If a tip off to potential benefit fraud is received the benefits are stopped until it has been thoroughly investigated. This can take many months. A false claim of fraud can be devastating and result in loss of accommodation, increasing new debts, inability to afford essentials.

If you want to report for housing benefit fraud you need to contact the local authority that is paying the housing benefits.

If you want to report benefit fraud you need to contact the DWP.

Local authorities and the DWP work together to tackle fraud and they will share evidence if there is potential fraud.

Think carefully before you report suspected fraud and think about why you want to report. As a fraud investigator (not benefits related) until I lost my sight I have led many 'tip off investigations' and the devastation caused by malicious tips off is truly awful.

That was way too long, sorry. All I meant to say was think about why you want to report and make sure you have ALL the facts befire deciding.

KingHenrysCodpiece

Just curious. Why are you so keen to report a family member?

Just curious. Why does it matter to you that it’s a family member? Look after your own and only report other people’s family members huh?

Report OP, they are a criminal.

He talks like he's Del Boy and it makes my skin crawl

So in fact the perfect tabloid stereotype of "benefits fraud" with a side order of disability?

@stacktherocks the other side of my argument is that whipping up panic about benefit fraud is the number one strategy, when in reality the proportion of funds misappropriated through benefit fraud is minuscule. So again, feeds into the breaking up of communities and the demonisation of people on benefits and working class people in general. Let the state do their job themselves. Why is everybody so keen these days to invite the state into their lives and communities?

As everyone has said DLA/PIP is a completely different benefit from housing benefit, you do not get housing benefit because you are disabled, they are also paid by different government agencies. So do you think they are claiming DLA fraudulently or housing benefit??

Would you turn a blind eye to any other suspected crime?

That’s your answer.

Okay, thank you everyone of your insight and opinions.

Going to have a bit of a think at work today, before I do anything.

Obviously it's the subletting that's the major issue here.

stacktherocks
BloodyDisgrace are you suggesting that an individual committing theft isn’t a problem while a corporation committing theft is?

No, I am not suggesting that. An individual committing theft is a problem, but on much smaller scale, and therefore I personally feel different towards this man. I can see why others don;t agree with me though. But, to me, he is stealing peanuts, his "wealth" is of such small scale or consequence that I am not angry about him doing it. But money stolen by big corporations really cost lives, and I believe no small scale theft by disadvantaged individuals here and there ver adds up to that.
Don't know if I explained it properly.