To take on DN and DN?

[Bughead1]

Very very long story short. Dh sister is 24 she has 2 children a girl 6 and a boy 2

She has bi polar and a history of slight neglect (feeds them and baths them but doesn't get them to bed till extremely late and doesn't make sure DD goes to school. )

She has always been very active on Facebook and starts arguments with the wrong people that then threaten to come round and smash her windows in/ her head it etc..
She smokes weed and owes a lot of money and steals and drops the kids off to mil and often goes missing for a few days before coming to pick them up.

Anyway, social services have been involved since my niece was 2. There have been lots of times it's looked like they'll be taken but it's finally been decided that they cannot be cared for by her. MIL was asked if she will take them but she will only take the girl. It's too much for her to look after a 2 year old full time.

Dh and I have 3 children of our own (10, 4, 3) so have our hands full. We could physically fit them in but it would be a squeeze. I'm a sahm so could look after them.

I feel like we're crazy to take them and would they be better with another foster family than in a crazy 5 child family, but I just feel heart broken thinking of them going into care.

Anyone been through similar that has any words of wisdom

It's tricky. We're in a similar situation in the our niece has a pretty unstable home life and social services are involved. We live in a pretty small 3 bed and have 2 boys but we have discussed how to make it work. It hasn't come to that yet but the thought of her being with strangers or worse, bounced around different strangers is enough to motivation to make it work.

Do make sure you look at the legal and financial aspects. The council may try and avoid making it formal and paying you but it is important that these kids get everything they are entitled too and equally that your children are not disadvantaged.

I am a foster carer but in Ireland so don't know the UK system. Here when children are placed with family they get the same allowances and support as other foster families. You should definitely pursue any assistance available, financial or otherwise. I think you should go for it if you can, you will be giving the children a shot at a proper family life. If it doesn't work out at least both you and the children will know that you tried to help. Best of luck.

As others have said, they will almost certainly have better life chances with you than in foster care - going to live with strangers is hugely traumatic for a small child, and with you they will still be connected to their family, their DGM etc.
However, do be realistic about how hard this will be. Make sure you get paid a foster care allowance. Make sure your mil is on board to provide respite care etc (even just to have them one at a time for an afternoon). Call in all the support you can. It's not going to be easy.

Also be aware that SS will have rules about how many children can fit into a house and you may find that they say you don't have space.

They will likely have high needs, their early years, contact with their mum but not living with her, and being looked after children will have impacts on their mental health in future - so be prepared for long term emotional and behavioural and attachment issues. I am sorry this is happening to your loved ones - it's ok to make whichever decision is right for you.

On the radio this morning, they were talking about how children do much better with family foster placements than random placements. Better outcomes for kids. More likely to be successfully reunited with parents. It was a quick story and I haven’t read the actual research behind it, but obviously this thread made me think of it.

I think you are making the right call, and I am sure your mil will be of some support and help even the odd time.

Have you posted about this before, OP? I'm almost certain I've read a very similar thread fairly recently.

Either way, I'd speak to Social Services first to check that you're actually eligible to take them on. I'd also ask your oldest DC, without giving them any indication of your thoughts on the matter, what they think about it all because - to put it bluntly - they were there first and it's going to have a big impact on them all so it's only right they should get a say (4yo and 3yo would be too young to have an opinion).

Ending up back together from a family foster isn’t actually always for good reasons.

Once SS get the child full time fostering within a family everything is basically your problem/issue to deal with. Forget all the extra help they promise. Family fosters sometimes end up back because everything is perfect, other times it’s because the foster just cannot cope and off the books the child goes back and then becomes on the books as the child is old enough to decide, sometimes it’s because the foster child commits crimes which means they cannot continue to live with the foster so they go back to the parents.

It’s not happy families, if you can’t 100% say you would never ever utter the words even when away from the child that you wish you hadn’t or it would’ve been easier if you hadn’t don’t do it.

Nothing worse than over hoarding accidentally that nobody wants you and they wish they could send you back.

I would take them. Do chase all support, talk to social services about what would be expected / permitted of the mother (& to your dh, as if I’d taken the children on i think I’d be prepared to cut your sil off if she were a negative influence, the children are more important) . It would be ideal if your mil would agree to some reasonably regular support (but not too onerous so she has some capacity in emergencies?)

they would be better being the sole focus of foster parents rather than sharing us with 3 other children.

DM was in your sitution. I was away at uni but she had my siblings. Her DP left the choice to her as it was his sisters kids. I still feel guilty to this day -25 years later-that I was the one who said ‘how could you let them go to strangers?’

It did not end well.

I would take them in if I could afford it/make it work.

My ILs took our DN in when her dipshit mother couldn't be arsed with her anymore. Poor child ended up from foster home to care home to foster home and is scarred. She's nearly 10 now and still has nightmares of being passed pillar to post. She's more settled now after 5 years of being with the ILs.

Do what you can if you have the option x

If it helps I can refer you to an independent social worker who might be able to give you some expert advice? PM me? She's a very senior person, used to work with a well known children's charity and is involved in advising government, helping to craft policy.
Scottish system though, so may be no help.
AFAIK her expertise/experience is that children always best with parents with all the support, then placed with family. The care system is struggling to cope.

Could you and MIL come so some kind of agreement? The 2 year old could qualify for 30 hours at nursery if SS specify it then maybe you have them on a weekend day to give MIL a break. Maybe do a school pick up and they go to yours for tea once a week?

I guess you’d have to be quite clear about how and when this would happen so the children feel quite settled with it.

I’d also echo what others say about being wary about the amount of support SS offer. IME once the children are in place it all disappears.

Would you financially be able to cope with two extras as you are a sahm I am assuming your dh will be financially providing for 7 people in total.

It might be worth checking out other options and weigh up your options as it could impact your own family life..

If you can, and want to, take them in, then do. I think it's highly unlikely they'll be better off in a foster home. Who knows how long they'd be there for and where they'd go next.

Sorry just RTFT. So pleased you're going to say yes.

Op, whatever you do, it’s a hard choice. You have a generous heart.

If they do come to you, please look up ways to minimise the impact on your children. Let them know that although you might have less time in the day for them, you are their mummy and love them just the same or more as before. And get one to one time with them etc and let them express negative feelings without them feeling you will be disappointed in them. Etc

I think what you’re doing is commendable Bughead

My aunt took on her SILs children after their mother and father sadly passed away through illness. They went from 2 to 5 and they made it work.

Good luck x

I am going against the grain here. I think it will be very damaging for your own kids.if the DN and DN were a lot younger or older it might work . The fact that you think it is the same as having another couple of bio kids shows how woefully naive you are

Are your DC close to DN and DN? What would happen if resentment were to surface on either side?

Agree with PPs that you taking them in gives SIL breathing space and a chance to maybe get to parent her DC again in the future if she can sort/get her issues under control that she wouldn't get if they go down the fostering out if the family route. But also share concerns about blurred lines causing emotional harm to her DC/your family if SIL doesn't let you get on with it. No sure if there is any statistics about bio parents going on to having more DC after having elder DC taken into care but from personal experience this has happened with an in-law of mine and all the DC were separated - how would you handle this?

What a sad position to be put in

I think you should get this moved to adoption, there will be people there who've been through similar.

It's all well and good us saying "take them in, how could you let them go to strangers" but we're not the ones who would suddenly have two small children to look after full time, who may well have additional needs following their tough start in life.

The impact on you and your children will be very very different to having two new biological children.

That's not to say i think you shouldn't do it, just that I think you should talk to those who will have a more realistic view.

Yes I second that MindyStClaire

All the evidence is that dc do best in their own families. If they go into foster care they may not be the sole focus of two devoted foster parents. There are wonderful foster parents but also awful ones. They might well have their own dc and other foster children.

Also, the two year old is very adoptable. The seven year old might be too especially as part of a sibling group. That would sever contact with birth family forever.

Personally, I think taking the younger one and your MIL taking girl is a good idea. Taking on a 6 yo when you have DC(4) and DC(3) is potentially disruptive to your family. Are you close in distance to MIL? They would still be able to see each other, mabe even have sleepovers, so they won't be fully split up. However, please be aware that they have already had significant childhood trauma and will have attachment difficulties. That's not easy to deal with. If you did decide to take both, I would ask MIL if she would have them one week-end a month so that you can have some respite with just your own kids. It sounds harsh, but for this to work long term you will need it. In fact you could do that for each other even if you had 2yo and she had 6yo.