To disagree with JSP re Home schooling debate on Loose Women

[Stickladylove88]

Don't normally watch Loose Women but caught a bit of it today. They were discussing home schooling - Stacey Solomon decided to home school her children after the school system didn't work out for them.

Janet Street Porter was very critical of this saying that children need to learn to be resilient and shouldn't be removed from schooling because it's a bit difficult. They need to be prepared for the real world not in a bubble. She said that we don't improve the state school system by withdrawing our children from it, parents need to take an active role in improving it.

I personally feel a little bit that home schooling is a last resort and needs to be monitored so that children are being educated properly in the same way that schools are monitored. However, parents should always have the right to do it, the school system doesn't work for every child and I'm not sure it makes a child more resilient being stuck in a situation where they're miserable and powerless for years on end. I think the government have far more power than parents to make the state school system better. Do others agree or is JSP onto something?

Don't want this to be a home school bashing thread, I respect whatever choices a parent makes.

Where I live the LA has had to pay fines (following long drawn out complaints and intervention of the Ombudsman) for failing to provide DC with either a school place or home tuition where parents expressly did not want to HE.

DS1's m/s placement failed but he was out of school awaiting tribunal for a more suitable placement. Once awarded this also failed. This might have been because he missed nearly all of year 7 or it may be because no educational institution was suitable. The LA then left him, just turned 14, with no school placement and no EOTAS for several more years arguing it was pointless.

The LA, far from monitoring, ignored all attempts to communicate with them by phone or email. We were forced to get legal support to get them to engage. We had to start judicial review legal proceedings before the LA would respect his right to an education and parents right not to HE at their own expense. It has taken at least 2 years for him to divorce school and learning and he is due to sit his iGCSE shortly but his mental health has been seriously damaged.

Unfortunately this is par for the course where DC have SN/SEN.

I know someone who "home educated" three of her children. Fortunately she decided that it wasn't working for her. When they started mainstream school it was discovered that they all had differing degrees of dyslexia (that hadn't been picked up by the mum).

I guess what is one person’s educational neglect is another person’s life skills. Ok - minecraft (though not devoid of educational value) may not satisfy a big chunk of education, but cooking, shopping etc are. PS - due to not needing to teach 29 other kids, HE CAN be done in significantly less time than regular classes.

There are positives to having a register (being technically aware of kids who are not in school). But are there enough positives to outweigh the cost and potential negatives (eg some people being judged as providing inadequate education when they are providing a reasonable basis for working/engagement with society taking into account any special needs the child might have)?

Those who for nutty reasons want to hide their kids from authorities and abuse them will probably still be able to do so (as they are currently able to do even if their kids are in school). One opportunity cost of a HE register could be better funding of social services which look into these high risk children.

I wouldn't choose to homeschool as the range of ages I have would make it difficult and mainly so far my children have had a quite positive experience at school. There are things I would love to change about our schooling system but not sure any parent really has an input on those.
I only know 2 parents who homeschool and they are the sort of parents that this registration and some kind of checking system would be of benefit to the children who aren't really being homeschooled just kept away from school iyswim.

Namenic

You do realise that HE is a potential Red Flag to SS. So all HE children are potentially children at risk.

I would like to know what is the penalty for schools who do not educate children.

A lot of parents are turning to HE because their dc cannot keep up.

If your child is dyslexic or has a SEN then school really isn’t for them.

I had a situation where the teacher was teaching the NC but Ds (aged 6) wasn’t able to do anything because he couldn’t read what was on the board or in the book or write anything down. He could only listen and try to work out what was going on.

I have a dyslexic child who is well supported at school, better than I could do (and I’m a teacher!) It’s a nonsense to say school “isn’t for” a child with dyslexia. Children are individuals for a start.

Tunnockswafer

Maybe your school is the exception.

Or as a teacher you have access to getting your child assessed.

Ds only just been assessed as dyslexic at 16

As part of the HE community I was not alone in my reasoning to pull Ds out of school.

Also Tunnockswafer if you are a teacher how do you support children in your class if you can’t support your own dc.

In the school there wasn’t anyone else to help or support children with SEN

@Oliversmummy - I didn’t realise it was red flag but I don’t think SS currently have time to investigate all HE children. My point with registration is that this is what it would force them to do - instead of channelling their efforts into very high risk (eg multiple red flags).

Some schools are shit.
Some teachers are shit.
Some parents who HE are shit.

All kids are different. All schools are different. I'm glad the law states all children must receive an education, and glad that home education is an option.

TapasForTwo

'I know someone who "home educated" three of her children. Fortunately she decided that it wasn't working for her. When they started mainstream school it was discovered that they all had differing degrees of dyslexia (that hadn't been picked up by the mum).'

My dad's dyslexia was picked up by us and school. Primary did very little to help her and she hated primary school. Schools that do very badly for kids leave a lasting negative legacy.

I couldn't afford to home educate and don't think I could do better than school. But sadly, primary did very badly for dd.

I HE one of my dc because he struggles to communicate (sn) and was being hurt repeatedly in school. When HT LA EWO and CT had all heard at a meeting that not only the assaults couldn’t be stopped but that it was what we should expect in his “cohort”, what choice did we really have??? There isn’t another school that could take him locally and we can’t move. JSP is obviously a miracle worker because I know lots of people in similar situations and none of us can see a solution.

The problem with just taking children out of schools that are failing in their duty to provide for SEN children, is what about the SEN children whose parents can't or won't home educate? The schools need to be changed and that won't happen if parents just pull their children out and let the schools think the problem is solved. But then of course no parent wants to let their children suffer for the sake of improving the schools for everyone.

I'm sick of people saying school is the best place for kids and it helps safe guard the children. Oh yeah, they sure helped me when I was bullied daily (the teachers often joined in and laughed), chased by a kid with a knife or when my best friend was raped in the school toilets. Infact the teachers told us to grow a thicker skin.

My children are home schooled and that's how it will be staying.

"Those of you saying you know of children who aren't getting an education, have you told their LA about your concerns?"

In the case of the one I know about, it is the LA who are failing to provide an education for a child with sen who doesn't have a school place. It don't care that the child (primary age) has been without full time education for a year. The parents are having to go to send tribunal to force the LA to name a school. This is a child with disabilities that were diagnosed at an early age and was excluded because the LA wouldn't provide the necessary support. The LA has offered no other school since the exclusion and doesn't care that it is breaking the law.

If you truly believe that school is essential to safeguard children, it follows logically that we should be requiring that all parents MUST have their children in day care or nursery right from the day they are born.

Most abuse occurs in very young children who are often too young to attend school. Sadly, as a nurse I've seen a case of sexual abuse in an 18-month-old. FAR too young to be in school.

Education doesn't begin solely because we put children in a classroom in chairs and tell them to sit and listen. Babies begin learning before birth.

There is a school that can take the child but the LA won't name it on cost grounds although they have offered no alternative.

I can't stand JSP.

For me home schooling would never be an option though even if DS has problems. I'm a single mum, I need to work and I'm not educated enough to do it myself, I didn't go to college or university. I couldn't afford private tutors.

DS is thriving at school at the moment but he's only in Year One. Fingers crossed that it continues. I have a friend who home schools due to her son being severely bullied which caused him extreme anxiety. He struggles to leave the house now.

I home ed, DS started off in school but the school environment he was in was so disruptive he generally was not learning a great deal (thrown chairs and lots of disruption, bullying etc) so we took him out. I teach him but he attends regular activities and has more opportunity to do more and different things than he would at the school he was attending.

The majority of the home educators we have are extremely dedicated and there are a number of groups we have which run activities and we are spoilt for choice, in fact, we could rarely be at home if we chose. Many of our numbers are former teachers who have chosen to home ed and some of them run teaching groups for things such as maths, science and creative writing. Trips out are frequent (at his school there was only 1 per year and it was to a local park - yes real learning from that I don't think!) museums and attractions do home ed discounts so it's affordable too.

Today we will be doing a mix of languages, maths and English and then we'll be heading out to do clip and climb with a large group of other children. He has the opportunity to do a regular big play meet every week and has firm friends from all groups.

We are in fact already registered with the local authority and I provide each year an overview of what I'm covering to them.

In terms of extremism, the children who would likely be at risk of that simply are not visible within the home ed community at all. They do not attend the meets or the activities, they most likely are not registered at all.

Some people HE for a bit and find it a struggle, some do go back to school. We also have here classes at a local college which HE teens attend towards their GSCEs and they get help with doing what they need to, many get good passes and go on to Uni.

People think that its lonely kids, stuck at home not learning properly but it isn't. You can give a higher quality of education simply because you're focused on a small group or single child and you get learning done when they are at their most receptive with resources they don't have to share with so many others.

I think the problem with any discussion about HE is that people rush to opposite ends of the bell curve and entrench themselves there, using extreme examples to support their positions. Which is not helpful when talking about the concept.

I agree Bertrand, but it's the same for most things really.

That's awful Fireandflames666 . I guess your experience has put you off state education for life. Fortunately not all schools are the same, and maybe one day, when your children are older, they might want to go to school.

@BertrandRussell until I started going to HE groups I had no idea how common our situation was or that the proportion of dc with disability was so high. It should be and extreme example but at present the groups I go to are well over 90% children with SN. . It’s not the extreme it’s the norm.

I know someone who "home educated" three of her children. Fortunately she decided that it wasn't working for her. When they started mainstream school it was discovered that they all had differing degrees of dyslexia (that hadn't been picked up by the mum

Mine was the exact reverse of this scenario.

I sent Ds to school. I knew he had dyslexia but there was nothing anyone could or was willing to do. We struggled on with school for a few years then I pulled him out because the school was failing him.

Only got Ds diagnosed with dyslexia, dysgraphia at 16 in college.

BitchQueen Sadly that is common with anxiety. If you restrict your activities, you simply transfer your anxiety on to other things, and you world shrinks.

In terms of HE there are parents doing a good job. Parents who are forced to HE because school is not meeting their DCs SEN. Parents who decide to HE who are totally not up to the job. And parents who HE who are doing so for their benefit not their kids.

I do think motivation matters. It should be about what is best for the dc, and there will I think always be issues where the motivation is what about is best for the parent.

"And parents who HE who are doing so for their benefit not their kids."

The woman I know who "home educated" her children just didn't like getting up early and could never get her eldest to school on time, so she removed her child from school and didn't send the next 2 to school. IMO home educating done well is excellent, but she just didn't educate her children and failed to spot the dyslexia.