To disagree with JSP re Home schooling debate on Loose Women

[Stickladylove88]

Don't normally watch Loose Women but caught a bit of it today. They were discussing home schooling - Stacey Solomon decided to home school her children after the school system didn't work out for them.

Janet Street Porter was very critical of this saying that children need to learn to be resilient and shouldn't be removed from schooling because it's a bit difficult. They need to be prepared for the real world not in a bubble. She said that we don't improve the state school system by withdrawing our children from it, parents need to take an active role in improving it.

I personally feel a little bit that home schooling is a last resort and needs to be monitored so that children are being educated properly in the same way that schools are monitored. However, parents should always have the right to do it, the school system doesn't work for every child and I'm not sure it makes a child more resilient being stuck in a situation where they're miserable and powerless for years on end. I think the government have far more power than parents to make the state school system better. Do others agree or is JSP onto something?

Don't want this to be a home school bashing thread, I respect whatever choices a parent makes.

But one assumes she went to school

As a teacher, I encountered parents who threatened that they would take their children out of school to home educate. In those situations, the parents would absolutely not have been able to do so, or have wanted to do so long term.

I have the utmost respect for parents who make sacrifices in order to school their children at home, to enable them to have an education that suits their needs and it’s a shame that the system is less and less likely to cope with children who have particular needs.

There are some though, who are clearly not in a position to offer a satisfactory learning experience, Some form of monitoring should be possible to ensure that children are having some type of education, even though it isn’t formal education. A parent who has difficulty in parenting the children, is unlikely to be able to offer adequate provision.

A friend of mine is a prominent home schooler. She has written her own little statement against registration for other home schooler's to share. I had quite a debate (friendly) with her yesterday about why registration could be viewed as a positive thing and would it really hurt her to just do it...
But her daughters are now... keeping this post vague... one approaching older primary age and one younger secondary age. And even though my friend is well educated and committed, I can see that her children aren't getting a well rounded education and I can see that in terms of Reading, Writing and Maths they are well behind their peers. Which makes sense to me if you are fanatical not only about HE, but also about education being child-led.

I posted too soon. I can also see that they have done most learning in the scientific subjects that their mother specialises in. Lots of proud posts appear on Facebook showing the clever things they have done as a result of their latest expedition to the Science Museum, but as someone who sits at the kitchen table with a cuppa at least once a week, I know that my friend completes a lot of the work herself. While the kids exercise their child-led perogative to go off and swear at each other over the Xbox. It actually breaks my heart. What will happen to these girls when they eventually do need to go out into the real world? There is talk of them joining secondary school, but their starting point will be so behind others and then who will have the task of "filling the gaps"? The teachers.

I'm watching skipping school, britain's invisible kids.

If done well I think it can be a positive thing.I'd love to homeschool my child.

alittlebitofvitriol well I don’t remotely see how that’s going to happen. Or how that protects vulnerable children. If you wanted to abuse your child, keeping them away from other adults would be a great way to hide what is going on. I want to know how to protect those children if only their own parents have any access to them. This isn’t for me about what decent parents who home educate do, it’s about the exceptions - and how we ensure the rights of their children.

I think local authorities not ensuring that a school education is provided for all those that want it, is a bigger issue. There are thousands of children with sen in this situation. Those parents aren't home educating. The local authority is supposed to be providing for those children but isn't.

The difference with HV, midwives, nursery, etc. is that they're optional. Sure, most people choose to make use of them but it would be perfectly legal for someone to choose not to. As I said earlier, the HV lost interest in us when my youngest was around 9m. I was told I could go along to their weekly clinic or give them a ring if I had any concerns. I've heard that they've changed locations now but I've not heard that from them directly - I'm not 100% sure where they've moved to, let alone when their clinic is now. I could find out if I needed to, but the onus is now on me to seek assistance if I feel it necessary. If anyone else had concerns about my DC I'd hope that they'd contact the HV, or SS if they were concerned about my older DC. There's already a register of "known about" HE children which allows the LA to keep in contact. They could be contacted about not known about children too, if there were concerns.

There are already systems in place. What's failing children is often people's blind loyalty to the parents, fear of being the bad guy who reports, the complete lack of funding for any kind of actual support... It's ridiculous to imply that occasional visits will actually identify issues. Abusive parents will fake the work, say all the right things & intimidate the children into agreeing with them. The only way we can ensure every child is safe all the time would be to put all children into institutions & ensure there are multiple adults with them at all times... Maybe CCTV for good measure...

YANBU. I do think hone schooling needs proper checks but there are kiss who just cannot cope in the school system and their mental heakth can be destroyed.

I always find these discussions interesting, but I find that I very rarely see posts from parents of older teens. Is this because they tend to go to school/college when they are older?

DD took a couple of science A levels. I don't see how a home educator would be able to cover and assess the practical element.

I don't think that this new guidance is aimed at the earnest and committed home-educators who go above and beyond to ensure that their children get a bespoke, challenging diet of educational offers.
Rather, it is aimed at parents who decide to HE without giving due consideration to how they will facilitate this; at parents who HE because their child is at risk of exclusion and parents who are sometimes 'advised' that this might be an option by an unscrupulous HT. These parents do not always have the ability or resilience to ensure that their child does ANY work and these sort of children, out of school, are at risk of criminal exploitation and educational failure.

There needs to be some level of oversight as not going to school takes away an important level of safeguarding so there are less opportunities for abuse and neglect to be noticed and therefore reported. And there has to be some monitoring to ensure the children are actually getting an education because although many parents that home educate take it seriously, there are also parents who don't and we need to protect the children of those parents - they have a right to an education.

Shouldn't need to be intense monitoring, maybe an interview with the children once a year or so, viewing some of their work and chatting to them, asking how they are getting on.

And schools need to be funded better and staffed better so that less parents need to home educate because their local schools aren't meeting the needs of their children. Home education should be a positive choice, not a last resort of desperate parents.

@Fromage

Yes I agree, my life would be completely different now if my parents had been able to remove me from school.
I was quite a bright child up until the bullying started, for the next 4 years I spent most of the time completely zoned out in lessons, living on my nerves, trying to figure out ways to skip school to the point I would harm myself, I actually threw myself down half the stairs one morning because I thought if I hurt myself badly enough, that would be a good few days at least off school.
My parents went to the school and did everything they could but the teachers were pretty uninterested, in their words there was no physical evidence (I hadn't actually been been beaten up) and I couldn't give them "adequate examples of bullying".
I wouldn't let them move me schools because I genuinely believed there was something wrong with me and no matter where I went someone would do the same to me. A wasted childhood because sometimes schools are just inadequate. I completely understand why people home school and I think if more people could afford to or had more information on home ed I think a lot more people would do it.

I personally don’t have an issue with registering home ed Per se BUT who’s to say that the govt won’t overstep the mark and enforce the national curriculum on everyone? Whilst still missing out those in school being abused and who knows what happens to 2-4 year olds who don’t attend nursery?? Basically I don’t think it would justify the extra cost and may have a negative impact on some.

General child well being checks for those in school and out of school would be expensive but may help address issues of welfare better (may also help with bullying, mental health issues and check on basic literacy and arithmetic).

I have seen parents on here thinking of HE who just from what they post, do not seem up to the task. So the parent who wanted to HE as she found getting the kids to school on time too hard and stressful. Or the parent who wanted to HE because she struggled with the social interaction required from a parent sending their kids to school. In both of these examples although there were people questioning their decisions to HE, there were others encouraging them to HE. This was not about what was best for the kids, but what was easiest for the parent.
Of course some kids are well HE. But there are also forums of adults on the net talking about what a disaster HE was for them.
Parents need to be HE for the right reasons and be capable of HE. I agree with the person above that if a parent is struggling with basic parenting, they are unlikely to be up to HE.

I very rarely see posts from parents of older teens. Is this because they tend to go to school/college when they are older?

In my experience, yes, many got to FE colleges or study with the OU.

So the parent who wanted to HE as she found getting the kids to school on time too hard and stressful.

That’s not an accurate portrayal of that situation and saying people aren’t up to the task of parenting because they have some problems with standard education is pretty harsh and unfair. For some families, particularly children with autism, it does work better and it’s completely reasonable for some people not to like our current educational system. Each to their own and all that

I don't think there is a problem with people who educate their children at home, even if it's in an unconventional manner. The problem lies with children who are not in school but not educated.

All of the HE advocates seem blind to the fact that there are a large number of children who receive no education. Many will be from troubled families but not all.
I know someone who took her child out of school for a couple of years for the best of reasons, but he was not educated and the knock on effect of that has been that he is now 18 with very limited career options.

The only way for the authorities to protect those children is to have a system of monitoring in place.

I would have had no problem 'registering'. But I acknowledge that as a white, middle class family with reasonable resources and a fairly traditional approach to education and lifestyle, we would have not really encountered many problems. We are both well educated and confident.

A family that isn't quite such a stereotype may struggle more and come under more scrutiny...and that isn't fair. So for that reason I have always been sceptical. Many local authorities haven't shown themselves to be transparent, fair, or legal in the past.

Jessica I am talking about a post from a year ago. And yes that what was the total reason she wanted to HE.

I don't get JSP's assumption that schools automatically teach resilience or that home educated kids are somehow less in the real world than those in school which are more a world unto themselves. I very much think putting the issues with schools as something parents can just fix without massive government and school support is a load of bollocks. Parents can play a part, but that attitude dismisses how many are trying to do that and are being failed by how things are working right now.

I currently have a home educated teen going to college this autumn for GCSEs and a vocational course, a child who recently transitioned from home education to state secondary, and two younger home educated kids. I have no issue with registration - I think it would be so much better if when kids are the ages for primary and secondary school places to be able to do the same with home education. It's always seen in school placement threads where people say if their kid doesn't get into X or Y school they'll home educate, I think it should be an option on the form to be able to list it has a preference so you can try for or be on the waiting list for certain schools and home education is placed before any other places. Having had registered home ed kids being offered secondary places we did not ask for - which I see why they do that - and having to have that back and forth with both the LA and the school in question isn't helping anyone. The option needs to be made part of the system.

I don't think home visits are the best option nor do I think they are viable with the current funding issues - there is a real thing much like with outstanding schools that once you're seen as fine you're unlikely to hear anything for years which isn't helping those falling through the gaps. As someone who lived through significant abuse and neglect as a child, I'm well aware of how well people can hide it in their homes and the bias a certain location can have and feel a neutral location and inclusion in the community would do better than the common suggestion for home visits. I think things like meetings in the community spaces like libraries to present portfolios of work or enabling home educated opportunities to have work included in the same spaces with school educated kids would be more helpful for home educated kids. If the goal is for home educated kids to be part of and seen in the community, the things to monitor them should focus on being in the community.

I think home education can work great, but I agree that there are home educated kids being failed much like there are kids being failed in schools, though each have their own risks there. There does need to be ways to ensure kids rights to education is protected. I think the growing support older home educated kids and kids struggling with the school curriculum as they are can access from colleges can be a great lifeline and looks like it's really helping both the kids who've fallen through the gaps and those who've just been home educated all along. We now have support from Year 10 here, I know other cities have some KS3 support as well. These alternatives when schools aren't working are vitally needed and I hope one day are properly supported as schools should be in helping all kids.

To the pp who asked how SS home schools when she isn't there - Stacey Solomon has been quite open that she uses a mixture of tutors to supplement the home education of her children.

However, sometimes schools fail children, children end up HM and then the GV swoops in and complains that the parents aren't doing a good enough job...

End up HS!

I assume visits to HE families will be a tick box for many, but will be used to pick up those who need SS intervention. The same way HV are now used. That is why they will want to see kids in their own home.