Too fat to fly

[loobielousplaits]

Is anyone/has anyone watched this?

It's a documentary about massively obese people being interviewed about being taken off flights/too fat to flight.

While I absolutely agree it's a 'fat shaming' programme - I can't agree with some of the comments from the interviewees that have complained they had to leave the plane due to an armrest not being able to go down - a woman wasn't able to visit the toilet, another who couldn't understand why someone would be offended that half their seat was taken up by overspill - a 32 st man was offended that he was asked to leave the aircraft because he couldn't safely fit in the seat and should have paid for two - pilot decided he wasn't safe to fly.

I'm torn - I absolutely understand weight is a huge issue (I was anorexic in my teens) and it is not easy to control your weight but come on - seriously? You cannot expect to be OK to fly if your weight affects health and safety and you can't fit safely in a seat

You pay

• @colehawlins If I thought that sitting down on a seat meant that I was causing discomfort to others I would stand myself, travel off peak or lose weight.*

Well if you need to travel in rush hour - normally to keep a job - then that's what you need to do.

Presumably nobody can lose weight instantaneously.

So that leaves standing. Which is fine for those who can, I suppose. But you're not going to try to enforce that, are you?

So, what is your conclusion? That only "normal sized" people should be allowed to board trains? Or allowed seats?

What do you think the solution is?

I can't say I've ever noticed much of a problem.

But I'm interested where some posters' logic is leading.

I did go looking for obesity related statistics, but stumbled across this instead (which seemed relevant, in light of some of the language used in this thread;

"Participants on average rated people with obesity as ‘less evolved’ and human than people without obesity. On average, participants placed people with obesity approximately 10 points below people without obesity. Blatant dehumanisation was most common among thinner participants, but was also observed among participants who would be medically classed as being ‘overweight’ or ‘obese’."

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2019/04/03/people-with-obesity-often-dehumanised-study-finds/

But you can't guarantee two seats next to each other on a train, so how would that work?

Pre-book

Stop trying to turn this into emotive discussion again. That's what your post is trying to do.

Again. This is about plain and simple fact that people who don't fit into 1 seat, must buy 2. Why is it so difficult?

I think we'll have to disagree about who is introducing emotive/dehumanising/moralistic themes to the discussion @InspectorClouseauMNdivision

I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who is being described in such judgemental terms.

As the researcher from that study says;

"Eric Robinson, a Reader at the University of Liverpool, said: “This is some of the first evidence that people with obesity are blatantly dehumanised. This tendency to consider people with obesity as ‘less human’ reveals the level of obesity stigma."
It’s too common for society to present and talk about obesity in dehumanising ways, using animalistic words to describe problems with food (e.g. ‘pigging out’) or using images that remove the dignity of people living with obesity. Obesity is a complex problem driven by poverty and with significant genetic, psychological and environmental components. Blatant or subtle dehumanisation of any group is morally wrong and in the context of obesity, what we also know is that the stigma surrounding obesity is actually a barrier to making long-term healthy lifestyle changes.”

The above was from the University of Liverpool research study again;

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2019/04/03/people-with-obesity-often-dehumanised-study-finds/

So should people just shut up and never actually complaint that they are paying for service and space, but some else is taking part of it?

Stop trying to turn this into emotive discussion again. That's what your post is trying to do.

Again. This is about plain and simple fact that people who don't fit into 1 seat, must buy 2. Why is it so difficult?

^ This

It can be an emotive discussion which is why it’s good to stick to the information - look at the airline policy / details on size and book an extra comfort seat

I think airlines are going about the issue in the right way - especially if they refund people if you don’t need the seat

But not everyone knows about it

I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who is being described in such judgemental terms.

Try and put yourself in the shoes of the person who is having their space spilled into.

Many people on this thread have recounted times when they have been put in incredibly uncomfortable situations because of someone overweight who hasn't bought 2 seats.

Do they not matter?

Stop trying to make this about something it's not

But that is the problem of the people. It's simply impossible to mkae everyone aware without them wanting that information. People should take responsibility for themselves and research. But I want too much in here. I know🤷‍♀️

I can already imagine how the pop ups someone mentioned would go down considering what happened on this thread...

I don't know @InspectorClouseauMNdivision

I'm just interested that language like "flop excess flesh" "trough" etc is being used with such wanton abandon i
on this thread. It seems unnecessarily unkind to me.

I tended to agree with the previous poster who said;

"That "overspill fat" is part of an actual human being. So I think stick with "please keep to the seat you have bought and paid for and don't encroach on mine". Or "I am going to put the armrest down, you need to stay on your side of it". Anything that's just "this is my space, that is yours, stay in it".

And then I found that study which seemed apposite, because surely if we are discussing policy, the optimal answer is supporting people to attain healthy weights?

I have no doubt it can be hard and demoralising, but I think it’s ok to expect that people do not encroach on other people’s space. It’s not ok to do it

I would feel uncomfortable if someone was encroaching into my seat/space. Be that a man-spreader, obese person, or general cheeky fucker. Less so on a short flight, but I can imagine on a long haul flight it'd be quite unpleasant.

But I can also be sympathetic to someone overweight feeling judged and self conscious, taking up space that they probably wished they didn't.

In the end it is up to the airlines to dictate policy and safety factors, but it would make sense if someone over a certain waist measurement would need to book two seats. But that doesn't sound very PC, does it?

I'm overweight but still fit in a seat on a plane. A couple of years ago we were flying back from Turkey and a woman in the seat in front was basically balanced on both arm rests of the middle seat and her bulk was spillover both sides. I would have been very unhappy if I had been sitting next to her. I felt sympathy for her, but more for the people on either side of her. The situation wasn't helped by the fact that she snacked non-stop the whole flight, and was unable to put the tray down. Also the other people couldn't put their trays down because of her encroaching on their space. I really think she should have paid for two seats.

Exactly @MarshaBradyo - Can you even imagine?

I've been gaining and losing the same two stone repeatedly since I became disabled. I pay through the nose for 4/5 sessions of hydro-physio and a specialist PT every week and it takes huge effort. Sometimes I skip sessions.

If something ever happened to make me gain much more, I'm not sure I'd be able to lose it. I'm sure it would feel insurmountable.

I just can't help wondering what we expect obese people to do. Apparently lots of people can't even assert themselves about a plane seat without resorting to dehumanising language.

It's really not abput why is someone obese. Or why they have massive shoulders. Or why they spread their legs. Or why they feel their super long ponytail must be over the top of their seat nearly touching someone's food...

It's about that putting other people into very uncomfortable positions when they actually paid for that space. The space they can't use. And obviously they will be angry about that.

I think people hit out more in this plane issue as they feel powerless to stop it happening to them - having to put up with extra discomfort even though they’ve booked a seat. Let’s face it economy is pretty grim as it is.

I know this thread has been hard in places, but the airline is not going to do pop ups or campaign on this so at least some people will know they can book extra width room without embarrassment

Agreed that some of the language here is hideous, and just symptomatic of anonymous fora like these. None of these conversations would ever be had in person, and I bet very few of the posters would put a status including the words 'flopping their excess flesh onto me' etc on their Facebook for example...for fear of coming across as an utter arsehole to those who know them.

I hope you're right @BarrenFieldofFucks

I'm going to go out of my way to be extra nice to obese people that cross my path, having read this thread.

What it’s like to be that fat person on a plane

This is a great read.

colehawlins That type of language was used by very few posters in comparison to others.

Crossing paths isn't a problem though. We can all be nice in those circumstances. It's when somebody's else, in whatever circumstances (theatre, plane, bus, train) encroaching on somebody else's space (particularly upsetting when you cannot escape/paid a lot of money for the seat) that is the problem. That might be because they are obese, manspreading, or just generally uncaring of other's boundaries.