To think this goes beyond sibling bickering?

[HipHipHippoo]

My sister has three daughters, aged 12, 7 and 2. The 7 year old has autism and her 12 year old sister is absolutely bullying her, in my opinion. Some incidents I've seen recently:

12 yo gave 7 yo one of her hundreds of teddies in front of her mum so she would be praised for being kind. 7yo was ecstatic and took it everywhere and played with it loads, only for 12 yo to demand it back a few days later and just chuck it into the pile in her room

7 yo said she was desperate for the loo on the way back from the park, 12 yo raced in to get to the toilet first and purposely sat on it for ages so 7 yo was crying and almost wet herself

7 yo loves drawing and spent over an hour on a picture. She went to the toilet and 12 yo decided the picture was in 'her space' at the table and shouted "if you don't come and move it in three seconds I'm going to rip it up" knowing full well she couldn't get there in time and would be hysterical at the thought of her picture being destroyed. I'm pretty sure she would have ripped it up if I hadn't intervened

7 yo carries a collection of belongings in a bag at all times that she likes to check and count as a comfort thing. 12 yo constantly threatens to, or indeed does, take the bag or some of the items from it and hides them causing much distress

12 yo constantly sets up 'competitions' between 7 yo and 2 yo, makes 7 yo think she's going to win and then makes her lose so she's upset

7 yo had a hospital appointment and 12 yo kept asking her why (knowing full well it was autism-related) and when 7 yo said it was just a check up to see how she's doing at school, 12 yo kept saying "it's because you've got AUTISM, AUTISM, AUTISM" repeatedly until 7 yo was crying with her hands clamped over her ears

12 yo will heavy-breathe on or poke 7 yo repeatedly to cause her discomfort and provoke a reaction

I could go on. It's become a lot more noticeable recently as 12 yo has been out with friends more and 7 yo is remarkably happier when she is. I approached the subject with my sister but she thinks it's just how siblings are She said she agrees 7 yo is much happier when 12 yo isn't there so she struggles to punish her as if she grounds her then she'll just be at home more and horrible to 7 yo even more as she'll blame her.

Tonight they were coming in my car and 12 yo old locked the door so 7 yo was standing in the rain and couldn't get in. I told her in no uncertain terms that I think her behaviour towards her sister is despicable and she looked shocked, but still kept shooting her evil looks all evening.

AIBU to approach the subject again? It's way more than normal sibling stuff right? My heart breaks seeing 7 yo so on edge and tormented.

I have a 12 and 7 year old.

My 7 year old attempts that kind of behaviour and it isn't accepted in anyway shape or form.

My 12 year old wouldn't dream of doing that stuff. The only thing I can relate to is the 12 year old sometimes being a bit of an A-hole after he's been out with friends.
Otherwise, she's far too old to be that nasty.

@HipHipHippoo it does sound like the 12 yo may be lacking in empathy and could possibly somewhere on the spectrum herself, or maybe have a personality disorder (too young to diagnose)

Do the girls have the same father?

Whatever it is, this 12 yo is deeply unhappy. She is a child remember.

I don't like some of the comments I'm reading about her being 'evil' etc.

12yo is a twat

Otoh it is likely as pp have said that this is a sign of some underlying issue with the 12yo.

Otoh being allowed to get away with what she knows is nasty behaviour isn't going to make her feel any better about herself- and it's making the 7yos life hell.

Your sister needs a 2-pronged approach:

she needs to look into longterm investigation/possible counselling etc for the older child

and she needs to stop her EVERY TIME she behaves badly towards her sister

It doesn't matter what the 12yo's motivation is, it is your sister's (and her dh's if he is on the scene) duty to keep everybody in the family physically and emotionally safe.

I had a child who used to go into violent meltdowns and try to kick and bite. There were all sorts of reasons for it and I felt desperately sad for her. It was still my job to make sure nobody got hurt.

There's a genetic link with autism and with each update about the 12yo the more it seems likely that she could also be on the spectrum.
I've had 3 NT 12yo kids (so this is anecdotal) but I'd worry if my 12 yo was behaving like that. My second child is very competitive with her siblings but she wouldn't have locked them out of the car, torn pictures etc as they had the empathy to work out that they wouldn't want it done to them. I brung up the competitive sibling thing because I wonder if it's why she won't be away from mum (fear of missing out) or it could be anxiety which is a condition that people with autism often have. If she's on the spectrum, what you perceive to be selfish could be rigid thinking. She may truly think that her sibling falling over was because he didn't hold on rather than due to her spinning it too fast. Or it could be pre-teen stubbornness.

Does the 7 year old go to school? 9pm bedtimes on a school night aren't ideal for that age- never mind the 2yo who is presumably woken for the school run. Is the activities your sister's way of splitting up the kids so they fight less?

I think it sounds like your sister needs support. Home life sounds horrible for the 7 year old and the 12 year old doesn't sound happy either,

I’ve been through similar and my eldest was also eventually diagnosed with ASD. Not saying the 12 year are old must be on the spectrum, but I do think it’s worth considering an assessment.

I mean, you're right of course. But why are you even involved to this extent? Put yourself and your own well being first. It's up to their own parents to sort this out. Cut back your time with the 12 year old to zero.

I can't just leave 7 yo to suffer jameswong

My sibling treated me like that repeatedly for years. No one stopped them.

I am far from ok about it all these years later.
It left significant psychological issues.

Hippo - its clear that the 12 year old has some issues. whether these are because she is on the spectrum (sounds very likely) or she is feeling left out is difficult to tell. but really at 12 this sounds like very childish and quite nasty behaviour. by 12 she should know about making allowances for people who are less able and if she feels left out should have the language to articulate this. Not behave in such a vile and quite frankly frightening way towards a sibling. I think you need to write down some key points and have some time to discuss them openly with your sister away from the children. be brutally honest about what you have seen and say that you know this goes beyond a bit of sibling rivalry. I have a large family and by 12 kids understand empathy and compassion. This could end up being really nasty - as the 7 year old grows bigger and stronger they will lash out and the mental scarring for them will be massive already.

you need to be calm and focussed when you speak to your sister. but also when the 12 year old does this in front of you then really call her out on this. show that you are disgusted by her behaviour.

My brother treated me this way - he was much bigger and stronger than me and I was scared of him. Ive had no contact with him for decades. I wish I had an aunt who would have stuck up for me and shown my parents that it wasn’t normal.

Yet another person here who had an older sibling like this (and it got much much worse through puberty and into young adulthood) and it has given me major lasting trauma requiring therapy and I now have no contact with sibling and minimal contact with parents.
In my case, I now realise that I had undiagnosed ASD/Dyspraxia and am pretty sure my sibling also had undiagnosed needs (ADHD) that my parents refused to deal with and so was let down by them too.
But ultimately, they neglected to protect me from being abused in my own household. In therapy recently I was asked if I wanted to report this as historical abuse, which shows the extent to which this is taken seriously. (Too much to go into detail here but what was passed off as ‘normal sibling rivalry’ by my parents escalated from the same kind of thing you are describing, though always including some physical violence, into full blown physical assaults, including hospitalisation of an intervening family member. I was never taken to have my injuries dealt with myself, in case questions were asked)
Your sister really needs to wake up to this and push to get professional support for all of them. I know categorically how hard it is to seek help for your child...my eldest has ASD/Dyspraxia/SPD.
However, I also know that, now having two children myself, this would only happen in my household once.
Perhaps show this thread to your sister and ask her to think about what the next few years might look like for all of them (not to mention 20/30 years down the line)
You are right to raise this and I am glad your nieces have you to look out for them, both of them. My heart breaks for your 7o niece though. She does not deserve to live like this.

I really think you are going to have to intervene in some way OP.
You can’t allow this to continue, the 12yr olds behaviour is truly awful! It will absolutely cripple the 7yr old before too long if it hasn’t already.

Can you show your DSis this thread or would she be really upset about it?

Sometimes it takes an outsiders perspective for a person to realise that certain behaviour is not at all normal and the 12yr olds behaviour is definitely not normal.

Please don’t let this continue OP.

Another who thinks the 12yo is quite possibly on the spectrum....

My dm suffered similar kinds of abuse from her sibling although no special needs were present. She was almost in tears about it the other day. She is 76. This needs sorting NOW.

The thing that most stuck out to me about your post was when you bluntly told her that her behaviour was despicable and she looked shocked. This leads me to believe that her own mother doesnt really call her out on it so the cause could be slack parenting. Or the sister has SN herself. Either way it needs getting to the bottom of and your sister needs to be made fully aware that this is NOT usual sibling stuff.

That is really sad to read op. I would tell your sister in no uncertain terms that this cannot continue it's not normal it's out and out bullying.