Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that paternity leave policy is unfair…

143 replies

Wombat12 · 01/04/2019 17:41

I’m currently a full-time student and my DH works full-time. We’d like to start a family after I graduate. I’d have 2-3 months between the end of my course and the start of my job contract (guaranteed) so we’d aim to have the baby in that period/just before (as much as you can ever plan these things!) and our plan was then for me to start working full-time and my DH to take on the role of primary caregiver. So we looked into shared parental leave…

It seems that unless I am working for the required amount prior to my due date (26 weeks in the 66 weeks before earning at least £390 in total across 13 of those weeks) my DH won’t be entitled to any leave beyond the minimum 2 weeks. If I was working I could transfer my leave entitlement to DH. I might be being unreasonable but it seems unfair to me that my DH’s ability to take leave depends on my working status not on his own. If the situation was reversed my leave wouldn’t depend on his working status and I’d not be impressed if it did!

I appreciate this wouldn’t normally be a problem and I could just get a part-time job. However, unfortunately the course I’m studying doesn’t really allow any time for a job and it’s strongly recommended we don't have one, especially in our final year. Any suggestions of possible part-time jobs that would meet the minimum criteria and not be too time intensive really appreciated.

Sorry if I’ve explained this poorly!

OP posts:
Hersheys · 01/04/2019 21:07

@eightoclock no kicks here

eightoclock · 01/04/2019 21:10

As long as you can cope on your husband's salary alone, there's nothing wrong with what you are planning. The current system does seem a tad sexist in many ways. How would it work for 2 gay dads?
Being pregnant is horrible though - best to be secure in a job if possible.

Ginger1982 · 01/04/2019 21:10

I still don't get why you wouldn't get a job first and then have a family? How old are you? Do you think you'll be happy having DH as primary carer? Does your mean having baby and going to work perhaps a month or so later?

JustHereForThePooStories · 01/04/2019 21:11

OP, can I ask what age you are?

If you’re 42 I can nearly see your point but, if time is on your side, surely you see the benefit of gettong eatablished in your new job first?

GPatz · 01/04/2019 21:17

'Many public service jobs pay full salary for six months for the partner'

I wish my public sector job offered this. Sadly, the shared parental leave only applied after the employee benefit ended, so DH could only claim statutory pay.

GrasswillbeGreener · 01/04/2019 21:17

Well, if as someone above wondered, the OP is a medical student, I can understand the worry about "the right time". Although you can expect to be in employment after your course, the ongoing assessment requiremnents are onerous and taking time out can lead to all sorts of difficulties and compromises - I'm not up to date on the details, but including stuff like repeating the year if you take more than a tiny bit of time out.

It can easily feel like you have to stay on the treadmill to progress, but at some point you will realise that a bit of delay here and there to your longer term aspirations really doesn't matter. I hope you can get some specific advice regarding career progression that helps you find a practical and realistic way forward.

And yes, most people can't plan babies to that degree.

augustboymummy17 · 01/04/2019 21:18

Personally I would finish your degree and start your job then start ttc if you get pregnant straight away you will be entitled to the maternity allowance however if it takes longer at least you will be in a job and then be entitled to smp my first pregnancy was so easy I didn't even know I was pregnant until gone 20 weeks (we were house buying so all 'signs' we put down to stress and I still continued having periods' however I am pregnant again I've had so much time of due to sickness and other issues being in your final year and having to deal with any unpleasant pregnancy effects wouldn't be great it could cause you to mess up your final year which would mean you would have to redo the year so you still wouldn't get mat pay

Good luck x

Holidayshopping · 01/04/2019 21:30

Many public service jobs pay full salary for six months for the partner

Can you elaborate?

sashh · 01/04/2019 21:33

I have never had a baby. I have no partner and currently I am not working. If I shove a pillow under my clothes can I claim maternity pay? I have worked most of my life and payed NI. It's not fair if I can't.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 01/04/2019 21:36

How would it work for 2 gay dads?

They'd get adoption leave, which works pretty much like maternity leave; like maternity leave, they can share it but you have to be employed.

rainingoutside · 01/04/2019 21:37

Ok. So where one parent only works:
1)mother works, gets 9months paid stat leave, father at home
2) father works, gets 2 weeks paid stat leave, mother at home
So 1) and 2) are unequal (which is what OP was pointing out), but I can see people's point that in actual fact the inequality is not unfair because you could argue leave is only necessary where both parents work if both are considered equal carers. However, in practice because of recovery/impracticality of knowing if father involved, the maternity leave is simply always available.
So it's unequal but not unfair, situation 1) is potentially 'super-fair'.
Anyway good luck!

TheNanny23 · 01/04/2019 21:41

Seriously? If you are a medical student then try and get through F1 first and delay trying for a year. You’ll then have full GMC registration and can do a lot more and have more flexibility as an SHO. One of my (male) colleagues had a baby just before starting FY and despite his wife being primary carer it really nearly broke him. He couldn’t get any sleep or rest anywhere and hardly saw his baby, and got dragged to ARCP panel for not doing enough portfolio. His marriage nearly ended.

tenbob · 01/04/2019 21:46

You’ve fallen at the first planning hurdle, because a pregnancy is 40 weeks, not 9 months
So working back 9 months from your course finish date might be an issue. And that’s assuming the baby doesn’t come early or late

But you are really underestimating how demanding a) a new baby and b) a new job are

Your best case plan is that you’re starting a brand new career with a 12 week old baby at home, how may still be waking up for a feed every few hours, who may need settling after every feed

What’s the rush to have the baby in this tiny window rather than a year or two after being in your job?

PoesyCherish · 01/04/2019 21:55

I didn't know this, it seems odd.

Ok. So where one parent only works:
1)mother works, gets 9months paid stat leave, father at home
2) father works, gets 2 weeks paid stat leave, mother at home
So 1) and 2) are unequal (which is what OP was pointing out), but I can see people's point that in actual fact the inequality is not unfair because you could argue leave is only necessary where both parents work if both are considered equal carers

On your last point, mum shouldn't get any paid leave then if dad isn't working, after all how can dad "share" his leave if he's not working... Though actually I think both should be entitled.

Why are people grilling the OP so much and suggesting she should wait? There are a multitude of reasons why a couple wouldn't want to wait - her age, his age, health reasons, type of jobs they've both got etc.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 01/04/2019 22:06

On your last point, mum shouldn't get any paid leave then if dad isn't working, after all how can dad "share" his leave if he's not working... Though actually I think both should be entitled.

The thing is, shared parental leave still starts from the premise that it's the mother's maternity leave that she can choose to share, or not. That might not seem fair but once you start thinking about the ramifications of doing it any other way (who adjudicates if both parents want the leave? Who pays for the huge extra cost if loads of partners of SAHMs, who previously cost the state nothing in maternity pay for a second pregnancy, now take 9 months leave?) you can see why it was done that way. So if OP doesn't qualify for maternity leave and pay then she can't share something she doesn't have.

PoesyCherish · 01/04/2019 22:10

Who pays for the huge extra cost if loads of partners of SAHMs, who previously cost the state nothing in maternity pay for a second pregnancy, now take 9 months leave?

I see what you're saying but what about in the cases of those who have Dad staying at home? It's rare but it happens. Mum is still entitled to 9 months pay so essentially the state is paying for both parents to be at home. Surely there would be a way of doing it where the first x amount of weeks Mum has to take (if working obviously) but then the rest is only payable if both parents work?

Alsohuman · 01/04/2019 22:18

I'll tell you what unfair is, OP. When I had my son there was no maternity leave, no paternity leave, no shared parental leave, no child benefit for the first child and no childcare, subsidised or otherwise. And you complain about unfairness. I despair.

Fiveredbricks · 01/04/2019 22:28

Oh and a healthy pregnancy is anywhere from 36-42 weeks on average OP... '9 months' is a load of bollocks for most. Although I say that, I was the one in 1000 who had their baby on the due date 😁

vgiraffe · 01/04/2019 22:34

Everyone seems to be missing the point - the system is unfair as it assumes the mother will take on the role of primary caregiver. SPL only allows the father to take more leave if he uses the mother's mat leave allowance.

I am a SAHM and have just had another baby. DH had 2 weeks paternity leave. If he had been the SAHP and I was working, I could still take the full entitlement of maternity leave.

Witchend · 01/04/2019 22:56

I feel bless, in the same way I did when dh's relative stamped his foot whenever anyone suggested baby might not come exactly on due date because "we know our dates exactly". He also said labour would be easy as they'd "practiced breathing". Grin Apparently those of us who'd been through it before knew nothing about such things.
Guess how late (and what the labour was like) from that attitude. Grin

SandyY2K · 01/04/2019 23:16

I planned all my children and got pregnant immediately everytime... so I don't think that's unreasonable. I accept I was probably lucky, but I was very aware of my fertile period and had no issue.

I see your point about your DHs qualifying period depending on your employment as being unfair though.

I would have thought his paternity leave, is dependent on his length of service...not yours.

ZippyBungleandGeorge · 01/04/2019 23:17

@MyDcAreMarvel I'm civil service, currently on mat leave. I am not receiving six months full pay and I've worked for my employer for nearly a decade.

minipie · 01/04/2019 23:31

FWIW I agree with you OP that the rules on paternity and maternity leave are unequal between fathers and mothers. I suspect the real reason is financial - employers and the state couldn’t afford the extra cost and disruption from fathers taking long leave, unless it was balanced by mothers being back in the workplace earlier than they might otherwise have been.

Leaving that aside. If you are discouraged from having a job in your final year, a pregnancy during that period is really not a good idea. Many (perhaps most) women feel, at best, nauseous and exhausted during the first trimester. Second trimester is broadly ok. Third trimester is exhausting and uncomfortable. I was pretty useless in my job for a large portion of my pregnancy and I had a fairly easy one.

Oh and 10% of babies are born prematurely. That doesn’t include the ones born between 37-40 weeks (early term). If you go ahead with your plan I would suggest aiming for a due date that is 6 weeks after your course ends, at the earliest.

Legumewaffle · 01/04/2019 23:35

Op I get you. I looked it up too and am annoyed at the same thing!

I'm also trying to do the degree (career change), new career and baby thing all at once. My DP is also coming up to 40 and is eager to get pregnant ASAP, as he's getting tired and his dad isn't in great health.

Would be so much easier if my DP could stay at home with baby (after a couple of months). It feels restrictive that he can't take time off in the same way that I could if I was working. It's all on me to juggle everything and if he could take the time off it would be easy. I don't know the answer!

Ihavealwaysknown · 01/04/2019 23:38

As teachers we figured we were pretty excited when we found out our baby was due in mid July, DH would take at most one weeks paternity leave (Stat) and the we would spend the summer holiday together.

What actually happened was baby arrived 7 weeks early, was in hospital for 3 weeks and then readmitted a week later, my lovely natural birth didn’t happen but a csection complete with blood transfusion did. DH ended up taking his full 2 weeks paternity (nightmare his work forced him to take it when baby was born, we’ve since realised they can’t do this!!) combined with an extra 2 weeks unpaid as I was initially in need of help at home and then we needed him when baby was readmitted.

There is NO way I would have been able to return to work at 3 months PP, plus the early arrival of DD would have scuppered the chance to complete a course (it left a group of year 11s high and dry a matter of weeks before their exams 🙈)

My advice, hold off, see how your work/life balance is with your new job, gain your maternity entitlement and then start trying. It’s great to have the support of colleagues when you have to first leave your baby to go to work, if they’re all new they won’t get it!