AIBU to think the pro-Brexit rally encapsulated the problems with Brexit

[twofingerstoEverything]

Last night's London rally seemed to me to encapsulate the basic problem with Brexit: lots of different groups from the rational and reasonable to the racist thugs, They can't even agree with each other what Brexit is, what type of Brexit they want, and have no common ground beyond wanting to leave. No wonder we're in a position of stalemate.

There's also a majority in Parliament who would pass Brexit in some form or another, but are deeply divided on what that Brexit should entail.

Yet it's Remainers that get blamed by certain Leave voters for the Leavers inability to pass the necessary legislation.

I feel sorry for leave voters who have found out that they have been lied to. I also feel sorry for leave voters who voted based on what they believed would be best and have been tarred with the 'racist' or 'stupid' brushes. Some leave voters have xenophobic reasons for wanting Brexit. Some just wanted 300 million for the NHS. Some looked at the same pro/con list that I did and came up with a different answer. I voted remain and would love nothing more than to remain. What has happened is nothing short of a national humiliation. I would really like all of the mudslinging between leavers and remainers to stop. Both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to trading insults.

Unfortunately there's deep divisions all over.
Do labour supporters align with racist violent momentum? Who abuse refugee s and use people with nothing to further their cause!!

Well I'm swing voter whose voted labor more than Tory and labour do.not.speak for me.

Neither smug arrogant chukka or appalling evil corybn.

I wouldn't charge every labour voter to agree with momentum et Al either.

It's really sad and unfortunate that Tommy Robinson has infiltrated ready made party ukip.

Same what's.

I also feel sorry for remainers who believe everything the EU promise's them. and who think based on own personal circumstances, rather than good of county.

Caz

I have no doubts a mostly positive brexit government would see us happily sailing to pastures new.
People coming up with deals have too do so to appease people who don't want breixit.

Mervyn king was bank gov during financial crisis and he thinks we will be fine leaving on WTO rulez.

@Bornfree the good of what country though?

The good of NI?

The good of Scotland? More people voted to stay in the EU than voted to stay in the UK.

I don’t pretend to love the EU but I wish we were remaining in it an reforming from within.

The fact that right wing extremism has taken over the Tory party is extremely worrying.

I have always thought they were the party of hate - now the are proving that to be true

Leaving certainly isn’t best for N Ireland, it’s complete rubbish for them which is why they voted convincingly to remain.

It's not just leavers who have shown what a shit show it is, it has ripped divisions across political lines, we are in a paradoxical situation where "dyed in the wool lefty's" are in the same camp as turbo neolibs and being all about the economy/gdp etc whilst ignoring the lexit argument.

Even if we remain which i hope we do, it's going to be a shit show for years to come as the mental gymnastics is going to be highlighted in the next GE

Mervyn king was bank gov during financial crisis and he thinks we will be fine leaving on WTO rulez.
The guy who, during his reign, failed to spot the impending recession, failed to spot that Northern Rock was on the brink on collapse and predicted austerity politics would be great for economic growth?

I wouldn't feel all that comfortable relying on his forecast (particularly with it being an outlier among economists).

There's also a majority in Parliament who would pass Brexit in some form or another, but are deeply divided on what that Brexit should entail.

This is slightly revisionist, yes the Tories vote along party lines, but the remain campaign was led by the Tories and they are generally neolib big business, one reason they cannot agree on brexit is because they do not want brexit.

Before anyone starts with JRM etc, for every disaster economist on leave side there is multiple on the remain side, it's a fringe of all sides and why Soros is a billionaire.

I wouldn't feel all that comfortable relying on his forecast (particularly with it being an outlier among economists).

At the time he was mainstream among economists though, there was only a few outcasts predicting the crash and they was brushed aside as not being mainstream.

Treating economics like an exact science is flawed on multiple levels.

This is slightly revisionist, yes the Tories vote along party lines, but the remain campaign was led by the Tories and they are generally neolib big business, one reason they cannot agree on brexit is because they do not want brexit.
It is not revisionist at all. Between the Tories willing to back May's deal, those Tories who want a harder Brexit, the DUP and the Lab/Indy MPs who have previously voted for the Deal, there is a majority who would vote for some form of Brexit (but various factions of them won't support May's deal for different reasons).

That's not including those in Labour who would back a softer Brexit.

There certainly wasn't a majority in favour of Brexit pre-referendum, but a majority would pass it in some form now.

It is not revisionist at all

Yes it is, because you are trying to paint it along party political lines and ignore that the neolibs in the blue camp are pro remain, hence why they are currently voting against Mays proposition because it's the worst situation possible, they may be following the mandate of the referendum, but to insinuate that the party want brexit is revisionist and highlights the shit show we are in.

You totally missed the patronising, self indulgent, brain powering by self importance alone remainer rally then? They're just as annoying and stupid as the racist brexiteers!

They’re really not as stupid. The majority of the remain vote has the highest levels of education.

If only David Cameron had engaged his brain

Yes. The only definite certainty in this whole blasted fiasco is that Mr Cameron was not as clever as he thought he was.

Yes. The only definite certainty in this whole blasted fiasco is that Mr Cameron was not as clever as he thought he was.

He was a full on turbo neolib remainer, so it could mean something. might not be what people try and insinuate though..

Also, someone with masters was telling me the other day they owe their Life to the EU .
Their parents came over as immigrants in.... the early 1960's

The majority of the remain vote has the highest levels of education

Yeah those somewhat enforced soft degrees have somehow made them more politically and economically astute whilst only listening to twitter, reading the Canary/buzzfeed inbetween working minimum wage jobs and unironically railing against neoliberalism.

Also are you saying that people you view as less intelligent don't deserve a vote?

I wonder... generally what class of people lead revolutions?

Hint.

Usually those at The bottom.

Its totally acceptable for people to be asked what they want then told it will be ignored. Bloody people, we dont live in a democracy.

Remainers have spent 3 years fundraising and organising around how to subvert democracy. Leavers have to play catch up, & they will catch up because leaving the EU is what we voted for.

what class of people lead revolutions

Usually at the bottom? You are joking.

Those ‘at the bottom’ are usually ‘led’ in revolutions, by wealthy, persuasive smooth talkers like Farage and Cummings.

He was a full on turbo neolib remainer, so it could mean something. might not be what people try and insinuate though.

Well that makes two of us.

Most Brexit voters are NOT like this

If you say so.

Usually those at The bottom.

I doubt it.