That this doesn't sit comfortably with me?

[savageswimmer]

I was sitting at the bus stop at my local hospital the other day and I kept noticing normal yellow and green ambulances with sirens going past but with 'Elite ems' on the side, I thought this was strange so I googled it and it appears that they are a private company being contracted to provide emergency response ambulance services. I had a look at their website and it doesn't sit right with me, quotes such as they 'exceed nhs standards' and calling patients 'clients'. Aibu that this is a slippery slope into privatisation that has the potential to descend into receiving an ambulance quicker if you have the means to pay? Should our emergency services really be being contracted out?

😯 that's just wrong

Awful!

I kind of don't mind who provides services provided:

1. standards stay high
2. stays free at the point of use

In our area a lot of paramedics are employed by British Red Cross as the NHS cant afford to fund training and ambulance vehicles. In the long term it cost the NHS more but not in the short term and they the NHS has to operate with a budget that is too small for the number/type of people it looks after.

So when they go bust (because there's not much profit to be made in shipping sick people around) will they just not turn up?

This is the whole problem with the NHS. It's a sacred cow, and no matter how substandard the service is (I've had numerous terminally ill relatives and know this to be the case), it's expected that it will be extolled as wonderful, and its system of funding impervious to criticism.

A free at the point of use system is fantastic, but is it fantastic that stretched resources result in a substandard service for everyone who uses it? I don't believe so.

Demand on the NHS is infinite and resources finite. The NHS is the third biggest world employer. That's after the Chinese army end East India Rail. We are a tiny country of about a 70m populous. From that short observation, even a numerically-illiterate person like me can do the maths. And the sums simply don't add up.

If it takes a third-party service provider to ensure emergency response times are not unnecessarily putting the lives and health of the public at risk, I personally don't think there's a choice. It might also prove the case with other subcontracted work.

I'm aware these sound very like the views of a Tory. I'm not one, and I don't vote for them.

And it's bothered me how it's been done so quietly, almost like nobody would notice! Privatisation is creeping in and I don't know about anybody else but I find it bloody scary. If there were no NHS ambulances anymore they would have the monopoly of the market and be able to do/charge what they like, almost like a 2 tier service

But privatisation hasn't always worked so well in past has it? Look at America. Are the train lines fantastically better now? A Gas and electric providers better? Questionable.

It’s worrying.

On one hand it means the existing fleet of NHS ambulances aren’t as stretched, more ambulances attending emergencies etc= good. Lives saved.

But on the other hand the NHS are certainly paying more for this private company than it would cost to run the same service themselves. That means less money in the NHS's Already dire budget and it will run out faster so what gets cut?

It's in the process of being privatised. It's been creeping in.

It's something to think about when you take to the ballot box, Conservatives are very interested in privatisation, they also want a deal with the US and are the clear underdog in that as we need a trade deal more then they do. Trump has his eyes on the NHS, if you enjoy free at the point of access care and don't want a US type system whereby you cannot have care if you cannot afford it, well it's something to think about.

But on the other hand the NHS are certainly paying more for this private company than it would cost to run the same service themselves. That means less money in the NHS's Already dire budget and it will run out faster so what gets cut?

I don't get the impression from OP's post that they are a subco to the NHS, just that they offer a private service run to exceed NHS standards that people can choose to pay for - in the same way as people can already choose to pay for private healthcare?

No Whitney, they have a contract with a couple of NHS trusts.

East of England and West Midlands trusts.

If I needed an ambulance I wouldn't care where it came from, or if a trained chimp was driving it.

According the cqc report they carried out over 50 thousand trips between 2017 and 2018.

just that they offer a private service run to exceed NHS standards that people can choose to pay for

No it’s not like private healthcare that you can opt for in an emergency. It’s a private company the NHS has engaged to meet their demands. Patients have no choice over which service arrives and don’t have to pay for it.

Interesting ...

I suppose in the (controversial point!) usual spirit of outsourcing it is possible that there is not an increased cost to the NHS for this service? Obviously this is not the standard outsourcing area, but presumably it is being trialled on the basis that it increases flexibility and may even reduce cost ... time will tell whether that's true or not, I guess.

There may have been a shortage of NHS ambulances that day, and they'd had to call in reinforcements.

According the cqc report they carried out over 50 thousand trips between 2017 and 2018.

I guess it's marginally encouraging that we've not all been made aware of it by crises occurring, then. Do you know if the relevant Trusts went out to tender for the services, rather than taking up an offer?

Agreed, very unsettling. More and more seems to be being put in private hands.

This is fairly standard in a lot of areas and has been going on for many years. The contracts are very demanding, placing at least the same standards and requirements on the commercial operator as on the NHS own service. Each ambulance costs hundreds of thousands of pounds to kit out and the staff are fully trained, as you would expect.

You may be peturbed by the privatisation element, but don't be concerned about standards.

As I social worker I occasionally need to commission a non NHS ambulance to move service users who cannot be moved safely any other way between community settings (e.g from home to residential or nursing care).

I know the ambulance providers we use also do contract work for the NHS but again it's mainly about moving people with no other safe means of transport from A to B rather than responding to emergency calls (e.g hospital back to nursing home).

Personally I have no issue with the NHS using a contractor in this way (basically a taxi service) freeing up NHS ambulances to respond to emergencies.

I believe they are manned by NHS trained paramedics so would be just as happy to see one.

Our NDNs are both paramedics. She just works for the NHS. He works for the NHS and a private company. He is specialist trained and does the air ambulance stuff and also private jobs abroad when his shifts allow.

A minor point but I’m on an NHS course and we’re told to use the terms “clients” or “service users” rather than patients so I think that’s current healthcare jargon rather than a privatisation thing,

I imagine that they are doing inter-hospital transfers.
Very likely with a team of drs/nurses/midwife/anethetist or whoever travelling with the patient.
So essentially only providing the transport.
This has happened for many years.

It's extremely unlikely that they will be responding to 999 calls unless a patient has already been assessed by someone and is requiring transport only.