That this doesn't sit comfortably with me?

[savageswimmer]

I was sitting at the bus stop at my local hospital the other day and I kept noticing normal yellow and green ambulances with sirens going past but with 'Elite ems' on the side, I thought this was strange so I googled it and it appears that they are a private company being contracted to provide emergency response ambulance services. I had a look at their website and it doesn't sit right with me, quotes such as they 'exceed nhs standards' and calling patients 'clients'. Aibu that this is a slippery slope into privatisation that has the potential to descend into receiving an ambulance quicker if you have the means to pay? Should our emergency services really be being contracted out?

The NHS sub contracts in all sorts of areas - it's no secret. DH has recently needed an eye referral. He was seen by a firm contracted by our local NHS and got an initial appointment within 6 weeks and a further appt 2 weeks later. They told him they'd follow up in 6 weeks and they have. Compare that to the service which used to be provided by the hospital - 12 monthly appts were always 18 monthly!

Our local ambulance service is pretty dire since certain changes have been made. We have, on more than one occasion, waited 45 mins for an ambulance for a cat. A (red) call. If getting an ambulance from a sub contracted service meant it arrived quicker then what's not to like? Patient ambulance transport has been sub contracted for years here.

The only reason that the NHS is struggling is because the bloody government doesn’t fund it properly - and that’s due to their ideology. If you vote Conservative, you’re voting for people to die due to their health providers refusing to fund the best, most expensive treatment for them. It’s all so, so wrong.

So much of the NHS is contracted out though. The key is that it remains free to access, which this is. And they don't refer to patients as clients, they say "patients and clients".

A minor point but I’m on an NHS course and we’re told to use the terms “clients” or “service users” rather than patients so I think that’s current healthcare jargon rather than a privatisation thing

Yes. At least it's not 'customer'. I've seen that used.

The only reason that the NHS is struggling is because the bloody government doesn’t fund it properly

Or because it has grown to be such a behemoth that now has to provide more services to more people than it is possible to fund at a rate that is palatable to the wide majority of tax-payers?

I think the NHS is much like the pension age issue - a huge problem that no Government of any party really wants to/can tackle effectively because any choices made are going to be unpopular.

Loads of parts of the NHS are already contracted out. In my area its ambulances, patient transport, pain management, musculo-skeletal, MRI scanning, podiatry, etc. The clue is a tiny little logo on their vans, cars, brochures that come out with appointment letters etc that say working in partnership with the NHS.

See how many can spot! Its like where's wally.

Pretty much everything in my area of work in the NHS seems to have been contracted out to private providers, from catering services, cleaners, ambulances, and even now the CHC assessment team (the people who decided if people should have long-term care funded by the NHS).

Basically the government knew there would be an uproar if it announced mass privatisation of the NHS, so instead they've just done it stealthily and privatised one service at a time over a number or years, and now basically have the NHS has been sold off to private providers for profit and barely anyone has noticed.

The only reason that the NHS is struggling is because the bloody government doesn’t fund it properly

I love the NHS as much as the next Brit but there is SO much waste in the NHS. Our local hospital trust was recently awarded Outstanding by the relevant inspectors. Which is brilliant.

But did the 5000 staff members really need a new multi-coloured lanyard each to say so?

As Hatfield says there are instances where private ambulance services are used to transport elderly or disabled people between nursing or respite care placements. An NHS ambulance would not be used for this as they aren't travelling to or from a hospital. Hatgirl has stated she has to commission these, in our case we had to self fund for paying for my dad as we have to pay his care fees as over savings threshold. The social worker gave me details of the service they used (it was a different one to this so there's obviously more than one similar service) but I had to arrange and pay.

It's disgusting that privatisation is being snuck in through the back door. The problem is that lots of contractors divide up the service into little pockets. The service will only provide what's it's contracted to do rather than work collaboratively for the patients sake.patients/clients then fall in between th gaps of the service.Private = profit. The NHS has lots of faults, buts it's doing a bloody amazing job in the current climate running on a lot of staff too. That can'ta nd wont last forever, enjoy it whilst you can and vote with this in mind

@riotlady

A minor point but I’m on an NHS course and we’re told to use the terms “clients” or “service users” rather than patients so I think that’s current healthcare jargon rather than a privatisation thing,

But it is a privatisation thing via the back door.
It's normalisation of the concept of "clients" in healthcare - getting everyone used to the idea that it's a business with clients so you no one will notice when it really becomes one, like frogs in boiling water.

That's been kept quiet!

It really hasn't been kept quiet. It's widespread and been happening for years. Also remember that at least 40% of the NHS has always been in private hands - GPs and most of the rest of primary care i.e. opticians and dentists are all private businesses who hold NHS contracts.

Virgin provides a lot of NHS services.

In the long term it cost the NHS more but not in the short term
This is the problem. In almost every area of the nhs there is a fire fighting response and it’s always the cheap short term option the managers seem to choose because they can’t see the bigger picture or because of how our governments are run they aren’t allowed to see it invade the next government takes the credit.....

This may be slightly irrelevant but could they have been working an event? My husband was a paramedic and worked for the NHS, but occasionally he would work for a private ambulance service for events like Motocross races etc to bring in a bit of extra money.

Privatisation is creeping in and I don't know about anybody else but I find it bloody scary.

Yeah it is everywhere!

YABU in only just realising that this is happening throughout the NHS

Funding has been cut let alone not raised to keep up with constant increases in available treatments and population needs.

Total Privatisation is a stones throw away and yet people are too busy moaning that their GP surgery is jam packed and there are no appointments or waiting times for secondary care are rubbish, to actually see what is happening.

Wake up.

Private firms have been contracted to provide ambulance services for years. Like a pp said its seen to be more cost effective in the short term but definitely works out more expensive in the long run.

I think these ambulances are funded by NHS

DD works for ambulance service - it’s been a revelation to me!
It’s not just emergencies - there are discharges, transfer between facilities - patient transport for our patients appointments some very regular eg dialysis and chemo or radiotherapy
Our local trust uses a mixture of own ambulances, private contractors, taxi companies, community transport schemes and even volunteer drivers
They do an amazing job and as demand is variable and unpredictable call in any resources they can to get the job done and help the service users

Agree, OP.
We spend less on our health care than almost every other developed country but expect a first class service. We simply need to pay more through tax.

It's worry. Outsourcing often costs a lot more in the long run but as it saves in the first financial year it's seen as better. Having seen it in practice, more often then not its shit.

As long as the NHS stays free at the point of use and provides a good service, I honestly can't see the problem with outsourcing.

I'd rather have an outsourced paramedic or similar turn up to me in an emergency than have to wait hours for an ambulance. As a first aider, I have called an ambulance twice in my workplace, and both times the ambulance took over 4 hours to arrive, to pretty serious emergencies, too (a suspected late miscarriage and a fall down a flight of stairs with a suspected back injury). If one of these outsourced ems had turned up quicker, i'd have taken it - no questions asked!

I love the concept of the NHS and free healthcare for all, but I think we sometimes get so wrapped up in it being free that we're willing to accept a substandard service - if this improves the service for those who the elite ems go to, and takes pressure of the NHS ambulances, I can't see the problem, personally.

Surely the alternative is someone going without emergency care?

Used to see something like this in our a&e. They wore blue jumpsuits though so it was obvious they weren't part of our local NWAS