To find this unfair

[user1496701154]

to find religious schools applications unfair. Saying you have to be practicing that religion. I can respect it but you have to be practicing. To apply I find it to be discriminationing

[AllMYSmellySocks]

Some people want a religious aspect, others don't, why should one side win? We are lucky we have the CHOICE.

Some people want to have school where all the children come from wealthy, educated families but the state doesn't accommodate that wish because it's unreasonable. Religion isn't education. Do it in your free time. It's also unfair on the child who is getting bombarded with messages only from a single point of view.

[JacquesHammer]

that's your opinion, why should you impose it on others?
Some people want a religious aspect, others don't, why should one side win? We are lucky we have the CHOICE

But faith schools are being IMPOSED on us. Why should that occur? If you want a faith school, fine - tax payers money should not fund it.

your catchment choice is not lowered by faith schools. Remove the faith schools and your choice is still the same

Yeah it really isn't.

If you don't like your choice, move. I am not even being sarcastic, I did - like most parents here, we specifically move to be in the right catchment, within the right distance for us

Yeah that's what we did. One school shut, leaving us one catchment village school. We didn't get into that - the next FOUR were faith schools, none of which we got a place in because their oversubscription criteria allows people of faith from out of catchment to be prioritised over people in catchment.

[thedisorganisedmum]

Religion isn't education. Do it in your free time.

and others will argue that religious beliefs and values are completely part of the education.

What about that side wins and ALL schools become faith school?

We have a choice, at least respect the right of others to make another one and have different beliefs. I would hate to be in a country where that choice is taken away from us.

[JacquesHammer]

We have a choice, at least respect the right of others to make another one and have different beliefs. I would hate to be in a country where that choice is taken away from us

I respect the right of ANYONE to hold a belief. I do not respect the fact that state funding - of which, let's face it there isn't enough, is going to schools that are actively selective on faith grounds.

[Acis]

you don't like faith school, then just ignore them and focus on the others. You are not being discriminated. It's a ridiculous idea.

But, given that faith schools are publicly funded, shouldn't every family have the choice of going to them? Why should they have to ignore what may well be the closest school to them?

the choice is to practice a religion and have a school offering education and your set values, or not having a religion and not going to a faith school. You can be an atheist, a jew, a christian or a muslim, there are school respecting your individual values.

So why can you only have schools reflecting your individual religious values but not any other values? Why is it the business of any school to respect and, in fact, promote religious values as opposed to simply promoting education?

And yes, some people will leave nearer to a faith school than a non-faith one. Do you suggest segregating people by faith and divide towns into faith quarters to prevent that?

No, I suggest not having any faith schools.

[thedisorganisedmum]

But faith schools are being IMPOSED on us.
they are not - you are not obliged to put your kids in one.

I don't know the numbers, but I am pretty sure most kids are NOT in a faith school! (would be an interesting %age, maybe I am wrong, but maybe the majority of parents want a faith school? They do tend to be oversubscribed).

[AllMYSmellySocks]

We have a choice, at least respect the right of others to make another one and have different beliefs. I would hate to be in a country where that choice is taken away from us.

Honestly that's just tough - especially when you're choice removes choice from other children. Religious beliefs are just that beliefs. It's fine to have them but they're not part of the national curriculum and since you can't claim your beliefs are any more real than those of a different religion they have no place in state funded education. It is also very obviously not right that children should be segregated according to religion. Different religious groups need to mix in life and should do so in school anything else is insular and divisive.

[thedisorganisedmum]

Why is it the business of any school to respect and, in fact, promote religious values as opposed to simply promoting education?
because some people believe it's an important part of education?

What make you certain they are wrong and you are right?
Can you really not tolerate the fact that other people have different beliefs?
It sounds to me that people like you make it even more important to have a choice of faith school to respect individual choices and values.

[JacquesHammer]

they are not - you are not obliged to put your kids in one

No. We were given one, refused and paid for the privilege.

I’m not sure you fully understand how the school place allocation works.

Where I am, 5 out of 6 closest schools are all faith schools. That means 5 people like us can’t access. You do the maths.

[AllMYSmellySocks]

because some people believe it's an important part of education?

TOUGH. Education policy should be fact based. What someone believes is irrelevant. A belief is something to do in your free time. Education should be factual and evidence based.

[JacquesHammer]

because some people believe it's an important part of education?

And they’re fully at liberty to deal with that at home.

[thedisorganisedmum]

Honestly that's just tough

think about the day a religious leader takes control and use that sentence about non-faith schools, but impose one and one only religion in all schools.

I can think of a few countries where that happened, and still happens today.

But as long as YOUR belief wins, it's fine to impose it on others, is it?

[Acis]

Some people want a religious aspect, others don't, why should one side win? We are lucky we have the CHOICE.

Fine, if you want a religious aspect, pay for it. Don't expect public funds to be available to subsidise your religious choice.

your catchment choice is not lowered by faith schools. Remove the faith schools and your choice is still the same.

Remove the faith entry criterion for all schools and you will give a proper range of choices to all families without reducing the number of schools.

and others will argue that religious beliefs and values are completely part of the education.

Learning about religious beliefs of all kinds is absolutely part of education. Promoting one particular belief as the only valid belief isn't.

[thedisorganisedmum]

TOUGH. Education policy should be fact based. What someone believes is irrelevant.

so what YOU believe is irrelevant.

we can carry on all day like that

[JacquesHammer]

But as long as YOUR belief wins, it's fine to impose it on others, is it?

Have secular education doesn’t remove the right of people to beliefs, just not at state expense.

Want a faith education? Your right. So pay for it.

[PlainSpeakingStraightTalking]

I applied to as a geography teacher but I was rejected due to my belief of ‘flat earth’. I say discrimination!! 😂😂

That wouldnt stop you ... I've worked with an atheist RS teacher who didnt believe in any God ...... and a general science teacher who was a hell fire creationalist baptist ... and a biology teacher who didnt believe in dinosaurs.

[havingtochangeusernameagain]

If they're state funded by taxpayers and the closest school to many in the community then they should take in those nearby taxpaying pupils

This. There's lots of angst about grammar schools but state funded faith schools are unfair, divisive and discriminatory. We don't let employers discriminate except in very limited cases, yet it's fine to discriminate against children?

State funded schools should take all comers, not just those who happen to be the "right" religion.

[havingtochangeusernameagain]

your catchment choice is not lowered by faith schools

of course it is. If my nearest school is a Catholic school, my son can't go there, even if it's a few yards away.

[Acis]

Can you really not tolerate the fact that other people have different beliefs?

How on earth can you possible get that out of my posts? I can 100% tolerate that. Indeed, I have pointed out the value of children learning about religions generally, and nowhere have I suggested that practising religion should be prevented.

What I do not accept is that there should exist state-funded schools which discriminate in allowing entry to children whose families are of a particular faith, or who can tick a box of having turned up at church once a week for a few years till all their kids have safely got a place.

[Acis]

But as long as YOUR belief wins, it's fine to impose it on others, is it?

I'm baffled by this, thedisorganisedmum. Surely it is people who defend faith schools that believe in the right of those schools to impose their belief. None of the people who are against them have remotely suggested that practising religious faiths should be banned, it's just something that should happen outside schools.

[justchecking1]

I'm not sure I understand the discrimination arguments. Anyone can apply to a faith school and the applications are prioritised based on practising faith as well as all the other criteria. Why is faith considered more discriminatory than being a looked after child, having a sibling in the school, or distance? No one complains about discrimination based on the fact that the family next door have a better chance of getting their child in just because they chose to procreate 2 years earlier and so already have a child in the school?! What's the difference?

[DoneLikeAKipper]

Some people want a religious aspect, others don't, why should one side win? We are lucky we have the CHOICE.

Then they should find a private school that accommodates that. I also have the choice to walk into places of worship and tell them all how atheism is correct. I wouldn’t though, because that’s incredibly disrespectful to those with faith. Why should faith be any part of my child’s education, a place for factual learning should be a safehaven from religious influence. It is also the case, as I keep pointing out, that education is compulsory - all children from all backgrounds should have a fair advantage to get into their local schools (putting aside real priorities such as LAC children). It shouldn’t come down to ‘well the closest schools are CoE but we’re not Christian, so we can only apply for x schools miles away’.

If you don't like your choice, move.

Sure thing, it’s so easy! Just put our house on the market, hope it sells for more than we paid for it, leave everyone we know as part of a community, hope we can find new jobs, all because we live in an area with a high proportion of faith schools. Excellent advice. All because those with faith think they have a right to impose it on all areas of life, and if others don’t like it well that’s just tough, we have to just put up with the shitter choices.

You can't complain because the nearest building from you is a faith school you don't agree with. No one is forcing you to apply there.

I won’t be. I’d sooner homeschool than put my children in a faith school, but I shouldn’t have to. They shouldn’t exist in the first place to put parents in the situation of having to say ‘can’t apply for my closest school because it’s religion based’. I will always complain about the existence of faith schools, the sooner they’re abolished, the better.

[JacquesHammer]

What's the difference?

Having an older sibling in the school can't be fudged to gain advantage...Our LEA is clamping down very harshly on people who attempt to use false addresses.

And yet you can turn up to a church, attend, get a relevant endorsement from the vicar and you take priority over a child in catchment of no faith. THAT is discrimination.

[JacquesHammer]

And of course in areas where there simply aren't enough school places, oversubscription criteria pretty much always come into play.

[Ipithombi]

It is discrimination! I agree! The top secondary school in our area is Catholic and I find it very unfair that we have little to no chance of getting in just because we aren’t catholic. The world we live in now is all about diversity and accepting everyone for who they are but we still have state funded religious schools?! How?!!