AIBU to not want to pay in full?

[Lincspeeps]

DD is in before and after-school childcare in a small place near Peterborough. We used them for DS for three years and DD has been there for five years. Never had any problems with them and have got to know staff very well.

Last week we had a call to say that due to an admin oversight our cheques from May and July 2018 have never been banked (total of £580) and as they are almost 9 and 11 months old they need replacements as the bank won't take them.

We hadn't realised they hadn't been banked and, being honest, that money is no longer available. Obviously an error on their part and on ours. We have offered to pay them £100 per month but they want it all or they won't accommodate DS after Easter.

AIBU to not want to pay it all out. We would have to go into overdrafts to find the lump sum and would be charged. As it's a dual error I don't think £100 per month for six months is unreasonable....is it?

One thing you should perhaps consider OP is cancelling those 2 cheques, as given that you have not just coughed up on demand - I certainly think they would try to present to the bank anyway.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me not to notice. Especially if you don’t have a regular salary but get paid in lump sums or have variable income instead. We definitely wouldnt notice that. Maybe suggest doing it in two payments? They might be more ameanable to that and pay in transfers from now on.

@ZippyBungleandGeorge It wasn't £50 a month though was it. It was £580 over two months.

Don't know about your Calendar, but mine has an extra month between May and July (hint: June).

@bethy15 If you don't have that money to pay it all off right now, you must be on a tighter budget,and if so, you would have noticed that they never cashed those cheques.

Maybe her budget wasn't as tight last year (it was 9 to 11 months ago), maybe it was and my suggested possibility of where £580 went in an 11 month period is what happened.

Can't believe the lack of imagination and harshness on this thread. She didn't make the mistake they did. They're a business, but they need to be more reasonable rather than threatening.

OP good luck with how it is dealt with. Maybe try to find an alternative provider and take all your money there.

You seriously have to ask!? This is cheeky fuckery from you!

There is no way you didn’t notice over £500 extra in your account

It’s likely there wasn’t, but even if there was, why is this so difficult to believe? Not everybody lives hand to mouth, counting every penny.

The amount of money we have at the end of a month fluctuates, depending on what we’ve done. And if it’s an up month, we either stick extra in savings or buy something from the list of things we’d like to get.

We once went an entire year not paying for electricity as our meter was broken. Readings are done by the company, and the only thing that ever happened was a change in the direct debit. No paper bills, all automatic, why would I check? We were paying about the same for gas and electric as in the old house overall, nothing to red flag it. When we discovered the problem we were owe them over £700. We didn’t have that money and the person on the phone was very rude and couldn’t believe we didn’t notice. I pointed out to them that they hadn’t noticed, and they have computerised systems more than capable of flagging things like this up so why was it so hard to believe I hadn’t noticed either? They agreed to paying it off over 6 months.

Similarly, I wrote a cheque for a donation to our school one Christmas. It was quite a lot of money. The PSA only advised me in March that they hadn’t banked the cheque, I’d had no idea. What with Christmas spending, it just disappeared. I’d said it would be fine for them to bank it by the end of March. They didn’t and instead took it in April, which caused me some issues.

I don’t keep track of every penny because for the vast majority of months I don’t have to. I get that’s not the reality for some, but it is for others. You asking “how could you not notice” is like me asking you “how can you have so little money you’d notice it” It can’t be that difficult to understand people live differently from you?

I think YANBU. As a comparison, we switched energy suppliers, gave them all the bank details etc. DH and I were talking about it 6 months or so later and he thought it had been coming out of my account, but we set it up on his, and when he looked he saw that the direct debit had been set up by no payment had been taken (our account showed we were to pay by monthly direct debit). We owed around £500.

I contacted the supplier and they agreed to a payment plan where we pay an extra £30 per month and they knocked some money off the total.

In our situation and yours, it wasn't ultimately our error. You gave your cheque and we set up our direct debit in good faith, when we were supposed to. Yes perhaps we should of kept a better eye on our accounts to pick up their error, but we didn't so a bit of flexibility from the side that actually made the mistake isn't much to ask for.

”As it's a dual error I don't think £100 per month for six months is unreasonable....is it?”

Bottom line is it doesn’t matter whether you or anyone here thinks it’s a reasonable payment plan. Either you want to keep DC there in which case you pay up quicker, or you are happy to move DC elsewhere and start a £100 payment plan regardless, hoping they don’t start legal action against you before you’ve paid it all off.

@Yabbers I don't live hand to mouth, but it's just adult financial management to keep an eye on your outgoings, she obviously isn't that flush with cash to have the luxury of ignoring it if she's not able to pay in this situation.

Have you checked that the cheques weren't cashed? Their record keeping obviously doesn't sound up to scratch, I'm wondering if the cheques could have been cashed but not allocated to your account hence asking for replacements (as they can't find the originals?)

Who pays anything by cheque?

It's not that op hasn't paid for them, she bloody did they just didn't cop on and cash the cheques! She wasn't trying to sneakily evade paying for her childcare with the cunning plan of giving them cheques on time.

FFS people, I imagine the OP, checks the balance on her statements regularly and checks debits and credits. If I had a query on balance I would go back and check the last 4 or 5 months of statements now in OP's case these would all tally. My DD's college asks for cheques for trips etc, they are often not banked for 2/3 months this makes it very hard to keep track of outgoings. The OP is more than happy to pay what she owes, but the childcare provider should take some responsibility for their oversight and accommodate her on her reasonable terms.

Yes it's an error on their behalf and perhaps they need to offer a bit of flexibility for that reason, but she is a grown adult who can also keep an eye on her finances, it's a bit pathetic to take the victim stance. It's like when people don't "realise" they were getting hundreds of pounds more in tax credits than they should, look at your accounts, query it when it looks odd, grow up!!

Online banking is your friend OP, it's not hard to keep track of what has gone out and come into your bank. I struggle to believe you didn't notice that money hadn't been paid to the nursery.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. Its their mistake.

To all the posters berating the OP for not noticing it hadn't been taken, and her cash flow issues now - surely this applies to the nursery too? They didn't notice the money going in so obviously don't need it that badly.

@Eliza9917 I completely agree with you. The nursery are supposed to be run as a business. They need to take responsibility and cut the OP some slack here. She is not refusing to pay - just pay over a few months. I keep an eye on my accounts online but if one bill didn't come out for a month or two I am not sure I would notice. Some months are better than others and if there is space cash over I either spend it or save it.

Do you know for sure those cheques haven't been cashed?

Op, i agree you shouldn't have to pay one lump sum now. I hope you can come to a reasonable solution with the carers.

We keep the funds for uncashed cheques in a seperate account for up to six years as that is the limit set by our governing body on clients money.

Banks are funny about cashing them after six months but we've had cheques in our reserve account cashed way over that.

So the OP should be more responsible keeping track of her finances. Well the child care provider should also do this. I know it is not quite the same but if the OP had paid in cash which the child care shoved in a drawer, 9 months later they tell the OP they have lost the envelope would you all still expect the OP to pay again?...I am just trying to point out that the care provider needs to take some responsibility.

Probably a good job the bank is refusing to cash the cheques otherwise you'd be in your overdraft anyways.
I agree it's not unreasonable that you've offered a payment plan, but I assume they've noticed the unpaid cheques as they also need the money otherwise they wouldn't be pressuring you.
Ultimately, as PPs said, they have you over a barrel, if you need the childcare you are going to have to find the money. Pretty sure most places wouldn't keep performing a service if you are in arrears, even if it is more their fault than yours.

Your relationship with them is based on a contract. Look at that. Base your discussions with their management committee / trustees on that.

It seems to me that you have met your obligations by providing payment promptly. They have failed to process that payment. This has inconvenienced you by messing with your cash flow and giving you the false impression you were better off than you were. You are not a business with accounting and reporting responsibilities. They are.

Morally, they are in error and owe you an apology and decent treatment. Legally, as pp have said, all you could be forced to do is follow a payment plan, based on affordability. Practically and contractually though, they do have the power to withdraw your DS's place. You need to think through the best and worst case scenarios and identify what is possible for you.

I would talk to the manager / chair face to face, or by phone, be very reasonable but clear and firm - about what a reliable and long-standing customer you are, this error being theirs and you doing everything within your power to address the issue and help them out of their hole - and appeal to their better nature. Don't get stroppy, try to 'out-reasonable' them.

FWIW as an example, I had a very similar issue once, where a direct debit hadn't been taken for a few months and this was discovered months later. The particular nature of the account it came from meant I hadn't noticed. I was offered a three-month payment plan up-front and agreed to that.

No-one wants the expense and time-wasting of going to court. Most businesses want to retain customers - though this may not be the case for you, if the club has a waiting list. Usually, they would rather keep existing, reliable customers, than take on unknown new ones.

It will be because they're auditing their year end accounts. And not before time! They want you to pay before April 5th so they can square it. But I agree with you, they waited 11 months, they can wait a little longer. Question is whether they'll play hardball and not let your son back. Which only you know.

It’s likely there wasn’t, but even if there was, why is this so difficult to believe? Not everybody lives hand to mouth, counting every penny.

This is true, however the OP doesn't have £500 to spare now, so she would notice if she had an extra £500 now, as she surely would have done last year.

I do't think anyone is suggesting it but the OP. She doesn't have £500 spare and last year she did and it's gone now.

@lincspeeps could you just get an interest free credit card and pay on that? Then pay it off at £100 a month. There's usually plenty that offer 12 months interest free.
They can take card payment right? In this day and age?
Then just cut up the card when you've finished with it.