AIBU to not want to pay in full?

[Lincspeeps]

DD is in before and after-school childcare in a small place near Peterborough. We used them for DS for three years and DD has been there for five years. Never had any problems with them and have got to know staff very well.

Last week we had a call to say that due to an admin oversight our cheques from May and July 2018 have never been banked (total of £580) and as they are almost 9 and 11 months old they need replacements as the bank won't take them.

We hadn't realised they hadn't been banked and, being honest, that money is no longer available. Obviously an error on their part and on ours. We have offered to pay them £100 per month but they want it all or they won't accommodate DS after Easter.

AIBU to not want to pay it all out. We would have to go into overdrafts to find the lump sum and would be charged. As it's a dual error I don't think £100 per month for six months is unreasonable....is it?

[oh4forkssake]

A payment plan is the fairest option here. It's a bit off that you didn't notice but it's ridiculous that they didn't either! They clearly don't need it that badly.

[havingtochangeusernameagain]

It seems to me that you have met your obligations by providing payment promptly. They have failed to process that payment

This. I don't think it's the OP's responsibility to provide payment again. If I provide a business with a cheque, I expect them to cash it expeditiously.

All of you blaming the OP for this, if you received a cheque from a business and forgot to cash it, would you expect the business to write another cheque?


Thought not.

[CluedoAddict]

@havingtochangeusernaneagain Yes I would absolutely contact the company to reissue a cheque. A cheque is a promise to pay an amount of money.

[OVienna]

Agree with @havingtochangeusernameagain .

If is screwed up and not cashed a client's cheque after nearly 11 months I would approach them very tentatively indeed. It's crap organisation on their part. I'd offer a discount (and an apology) if they agreed to pay up immediately.

I can quite imagine a nursery that could fill its places quickly taking this line though. It's shit management.

[MaybeitsMaybelline]

I also don’t get how you could not realise these cheques hadn’t cleared. To not be able to stump up 500 quid now suggests that an “extra” 500 quid a few months ago would have been very visible to you. I don’t think the child care provider owes you a payment plan. I suspect they have done n end of year audit which identified the cheques and you needn’t to make the cash available to them.

[LoudBatPerson]

Yes, we are a bit shit at managing our finances but nothing more.

Hopefully, this will highlight the importance of keeping a proper track of payments, particularly when the exact date of them is outside of your control (as it is when paying via cheque).

The onus is on you to ensure that your account contains enough funds to cover any outstanding cheques which have not been cashed.

If the provider is not willing to accept a repayment scheme and keep providing care, I do not see you have a choice but to find another provider and make the repayments over time to the old provider.

I imagine that the terms you signed up for the provider will have a clause about removing the place if there is an outstanding debt, so I doubt you will get them to move.

[Yabbers]

She doesn't have £500 spare and last year she did and it's gone now.

Not difficult to spend 500 quid extra over 9 months and not notice. As I said, how much I have at the end of a month fluctuates wildly. An extra 280 quid at the end of the month wouldn’t set alarm bells ringing that something hadn’t been paid.

but it's just adult financial management to keep an eye on your outgoings, she obviously isn't that flush with cash to have the luxury of ignoring it if she's not able to pay in this situation.
She did keep an eye on it. She had enough money to cover the cheque.

I’d consider myself to be flush with cash. If it were this month I’d manage to pay 500 quid, but if it had been last month I wouldn’t.

[Lincspeeps]

Thanks for all your comments - even those having a dig.

I have cancelled both cheques and phoned the business just now and offered to pay 4 x £150 starting today. The person I spoke to is passing this offer on to the manager this afternoon.

Regarding my finances, we didn't go on holiday last year so had much more disposable income floating around. This year we are going away and are paying £400 towards it each month, which is why conjuring up £580 immediately is so difficult.

[cstaff]

Hopefully your offer will be accepted OP. They are being very unreasonable if not.

[LoudBatPerson]

if the OP had paid in cash which the child care shoved in a drawer, 9 months later they tell the OP they have lost the envelope would you all still expect the OP to pay again?...I am just trying to point out that the care provider needs to take some responsibility.

No, because in that case, the OP would have actually paid the provider. When you give someone a cheque, they have not actually been paid until the cheque is cashed and cleared.

The care provider has indeed not done particularly well, however when paying by cheque it is the person paying by cheque who makes the promise of the actual payment, and is liable for that payment when the cheque is cashed (unless the cheque is cancelled etc, which wouldn't matter here as the services have already been provided, so the OP is liable for the cost).

[hahshbsbskao]

100% agree with your payment plan OP, you obviously made a mistake not realising it hadn't been taken, but then so did they! They're being ridiculous to not accept it.

[Anique105]

What it comes down to is that you need to pay. You should have noticed that amount in your account. As many pointed out if you didnt notice it then why cant you make that extra amount. Its obvious you spent it.

You can kick up a fuss but do you want it to come down to your ds not having a place there and finding somewhere else.

[GabsAlot]

sorry your holiday shouldnt be the priority here-you owe a business money they should be paid first

[Graphista]

How on earth could you not have noticed the money didn't come out of your account?!

You owe the money you need to pay up.

I'd have been chasing them after the first month if it hadn't gone out precisely to avoid just this situation and I'd have set the money aside so as to avoid spending it.

If it still weren't cashed after 2 months I'd have been cancelling the original cheques and made an appointment to speak to them about their lax accounting.

"No, I didn't realise the additional money was there. It's a joint bank account and money is coming in and out all the time". thats exactly why you SHOULD be keeping a closer eye - such an approach leaves you wide open to fraud or even as you're finding here coming unstuck due to others mistakes

"They normally bank cheques within a week so just assumed they had gone out" never assume when it comes to money. Always check on what's happening

I'm on a tight budget and check my budget weekly, I run a spreadsheet for working out what I can afford and to save for things like Christmas and to "forecast" what my balances should be. Makes it very easy to do quick checks and notice if something is amiss.

Sorry but I'm with pps who think if you're well off enough to not even notice a Cheque of over £500 hasn't been cashed (which I'm very sceptical about) then you can pay it off in full.

[ScrewyMcScrewup]

A payment plan is very reasonable.

Some of these replies are really odd. Hope you enjoy the holiday!

[Dottierichardson]

It seems that MN is full of people who do regular bank reconciliations how nice to see we're a nation of accountants. OP YANBU to ask for a payment plan, the business screwed up, they should go halfway to meet you in sorting this out.

[CordeliaEarhart]

a Cheque of over £500

It wasn't. It was a cheque of less than £300 and two months later another cheque of less than £300. I'd notice if a cheque of £50 wasn't cashed, some would notice £5. It isn't that hard to imagine that some people have different levels of income and expenditure.

Nobody is saying she shouldn't pay it, we're just saying that a payment plan is totally reasonable considering the company were also at fault here.

[skye199]

Pay them obv!

[Dreamingofkfc]

If you pay by cheque does this mean you don't use the tax free child care scheme? Are you both working? It will save you 20%

[Lincspeeps]

I completely agree that I need to pay. Non payment is not an option - I'm not a thief and, having checked my bank statement for the past few years have worked out I have paid them a total of £23,260 - I just feel that this should 'buy' me some leeway in paying back their mistake.

If I was offering £1 per month for life I'd understand some of the negativity on here but I don't think my 'upped' offer of £150 x 4 is unreasonable for a business I have given so much to.

Other obviously have differing views and I respect that.

[Pinkyyy]

I can't believe you're getting such a hard time. Of course they can't demand a lump sum-its their error not yours. Paying in installments should be fine.

[septembersunshine]

Op, we pay for our ds nursery fees via bank transfear and use our ds name has the reference. That way we know the money was transfeared and have a record of it. Maybe do that next time?

Op, I would just pay up in full now and put it behind you. If you really can't afford that then offer to pay half immediately and the other half on a date agreed to by all the parties involved. Yes, it was their error but these things happen. I don't blame you for not noticing. The other day I found out my 10 year old son had unwittingly signed me up on Amazon (using his tablet that I opened with my Amazon account) to get music or something....it was an ongoing payment, £10 a month. A year later I noticed this. A year. And I check my online banking account twice a week.

[KittyVonCatsington]

Sorry but I'm with pps who think if you're well off enough to not even notice a Cheque of over £500 hasn't been cashed (which I'm very sceptical about) then you can pay it off in full.

What a heartless thing to say. Highlights the contempt some Mumsnetters have of those not counting every penny.

OP, you have handled this fairly. I hope that your latest offer to them is accepted.

[TheFaerieQueene]

Cancelled the cheque 🤣

A MN oldie but goodie.

[Raspberrytruffle]

Wow that would annoy me but unfortunately you do need to pay op.
Did you not notice that you had more money in your bank than expected? Money is tight for us so we watch every penny and if I were to pay by check I'd be ensuring that money was not touched and if they had not asked for it after a while I would of contacted them asking why? I can't sleep until I know the money has been taken but that's just me I'd worry if I had nothing to worry about