To think this could be the end of brexit as mps take control of the process from the PM

[quittinaeete]

Theresa may now really cant go for a hard brexit, anyone else think it's brexit cancelled?

Greenland isn't in any way comparable with the UK. It's an autonomous constituent of Denmark, with the Danish government keeping control of foreign affairs, defence, and monetary policy, providing an annual subsidy, which is planned to diminish gradually over time. As pointed out, they only had to do one trade deal and struggled with that.

Even Rees-Mogg admits that it the best case scenario is that, after no deal Brexit, it would take 50 years to get back to where we are now. I simply don't want that for my children and grandchildren.

I've often thought that in the event of terrifying civil disruption and societal breakdown I'd go get me some GD hair straighteners and a hostess trolley.

There wont be civil war... hard line brexiters are a loud minority. The majority of people dont give enough of a fuck to get violent. They really dont.
Remainers will march peacefully because they tend to be a more politically engaged, educated and younger demographic (I've said tend to be because I know not all of them are and I know some leavers are young and highly educated too) youth is the key point here because youth is the most likely to get out on the streets. And that's much more likely to happen if theres a no deal Brexit.

Leavers tended to be older and more apathetic about political action anyway (many people who voted leave did not vote in general elections before)
So I think there are some politically engaged leave voters who will take to the streets but it will not be very many at all tbh. Most will just get in a bit off a huff and cry 'well I'm never voting again then' and go back to not giving a shit like they did before.

The biggest risk is that a handful or far right extremists will attack mosques/politicians etc etc and end up killing some people. It wont be large scale but it will be appalling. I dont personally think these people should be pandered to though.
That's why I thought Theresa speech was so disgusting... she plays right into the hands of violent dickheads like jo cox murderer...

The biggest chance of an actual riot happening is if in the event of no deal a few years down the line peoples living standards have massively slipped at the bottom end...

To me cancelling the whole thing is the least likely result to end in riots

At no point on this thread has it been acknowledged that we had a referendum, 17.4m - more people than have voted on one side in any election or referendum in British history - voted Leave, and those people have the right to see what they voted for implemented

But, ADropofReality, you aren't acknowledging that that vote was obtained via known fraud and serious breaches of electoral law. The government has admitted that, if that had happened in a local or general election, the result would have been set aside. The reason it hasn't happened in relation to the referendum is that the vote was only advisory.

Until the Leave campaign grasps the nettle on this one and stops sweeping the frauds under the carpet , its arguments that "52% voted leave" really take us nowhere.

Yep, Ribbonsonabox, this

“To me cancelling the whole thing is the least likely result to end in riots”

I saw the March to Leave walkers recently. They were in Tesco filling up on Pepsi, Doritos and foot plasters.

Can't posters have a discussion about Britain leaving the EU (or not) without resorting to insults?

I get that emotions are running high, especially for those of us that didn't get the result we wanted, but surely these discussions can be had without name-calling, insinuating other posters are stupid, etc.
Aren't we better than that?

Easy to conduct a civil war from a keyboard sitting in a big comfy armchair and not getting up off arse, that's why keyboard threats are quite laughable but hey civil war on one side will give the police overtime which comes from taxes so bit of an own gaol really.

And Guido Fawkes was horribly tortured in the tower, made the mistake of unsuccessfully blowing up Parliament and paid the price of treason

Neither side have covered themselves in glory here.

Remainers resorting to calling leave voters thick and uneducated amongst other things (and regardless of how, it is still worth remembering that seventeen million people did vote leave so that’s a huge amount of the electorate to brand as thick and uneducated), and on the other side the leave voters talking about democracy and in one instance I even saw someone justifying sending death threats to the woman who started the petition.

Either way it’s been entirely unedifying on both sides.

It’s become abundantly clear that Brexit as things stand I almost impossible to agree. However another referendum does carry its own risks. As much as there are leave voters who would vote remain,there are also remain voters who would vote leave, and the truth is that no-one would have called it last time and there is still the chance that leave could win and then what? Let’s not pretend that remain voters will stand for that - they’ll just say that it confirms that the voting population are thicko’s with no idea and we’ll be back to square1.

And I voted remain, but I am not in favour of a referendum. At all.

I voted Leave mostly because I saw the referendum as a back door way for David Cameron to get the UK on board with the TTIP deal
(there was a lot of scaremongering about this at the time, opening up state run services including the NHS to be bid on by US companies).

Now that's off the table I would happily go for a second referendum, or at least revoke for now and sort out the mess.

To me cancelling the whole thing is the least likely result to end in riots

So are you saying that the supposedly intelligent and educated remainers are the side more likely to riot?

NoCauseRebel

I don’t think it’s outrageous at all to suggest that the majority of the population was pretty thick with regard to the EU in 2016. Not insulting, just reality. I happily include myself in that group (I’m not thick, per se, pretty well educated and mature with developed opinions, right or wrong). How many of us actually knew anything much though, in minute procedural detail before we voted? I’d venture not very many at all. It all more or less came from which papers we read or broadcasts we listened to. The Lisbon Treaty wasn’t my preferred bedtime reading, doubt if it was that of many. Many people had never heard of the customs union or the single market and of those who had many had only the vaguest idea of what they represented. Which is precisely why Cameron should never have handed such a crucial decision to the public. Ironically, it now seems of course that one of the only realistic ways out of the mess is to hand it back to them again. On the plus side, I’m certainly considerable better informed than I was in 2016 and would hope the majority is.

I always voted politicians in in the belief that they had a knowledge and understanding of the important issues of the day extending way beyond my own. Therein lies the problem. I want to be governed by an intellectual elite, by people considerable smarter than I am. The quality of the current bunch is woefully, mediocre at the most optimistic, which is why we find ourselves in the mess we’re in.

Woeful

You know what? You want democracy? This is democracy. The people you elected taking charge and making decisions

exactly

and the idea of civil war is ludicrous

There'll be some posturing and tutting and whining then we'll all move on

Except for the nutters and sadly there is almost certainly going to be a couple of those.

ribbonsonabox I completely agree

Kazzyhoward

To me cancelling the whole thing is the least likely result to end in riots

So are you saying that the supposedly intelligent and educated remainers are the side more likely to riot?“

No, I think if the government revokes it gives everyone of every viewpoint a way out of the mess without losing face.

I always voted for politicians in in the belief that they had a knowledge and understanding of the important issues of the day extending way beyond my own. Therein lies the problem. I want to be governed by an intellectual elite, by people considerable smarter than I am. The quality of the current bunch is woefully, mediocre at the most optimistic, which is why we find ourselves in the mess we’re in
I agree completely with this

I always voted for politicians in in the belief that they had a knowledge and understanding of the important issues of the day extending way beyond my own. Therein lies the problem. I want to be governed by an intellectual elite, by people considerable smarter than I am. The quality of the current bunch is woefully, mediocre at the most optimistic, which is why we find ourselves in the mess we’re in

I agree too

although I remember starting a thread on MN at the time of the referendum saying this

and got my arse handed to me

"how dare you assume people aren't clever enough to make decisions like this" etc etc etc

I always voted politicians in in the belief that they had a knowledge and understanding of the important issues of the day extending way beyond my own.

The naivety of this post is stunning.

I take the opposite, far more cynical view that most politicians are primarily motivated by furthering their own careers, ambitions and highly questionable agendas. I wouldn’t trust most of them as far as I could throw them, personally.

Fazackerley: which is a daft argument, isn’t it? I am not a professional politician, legislator, constitutional authority, legal eagle. Why on earth should I be expected to make binding decisions affecting (potentially adversely) millions of other people about something I know very little of? Gut instinct and national pride is no basis for governance. I love this island, wouldn’t want to live anywhere else, (but love the freedom to travel bring European affords me) but I don’t know how to administer a civil service, oversee vital public services or negotiate on the global stage. I’d quite like appointed experts to do that on my behalf, thanks!
But I guess we know what certain government ministers think of experts and business. The alarming result of their spouting appears to be, after watching the various vox pops over the months, that many people have fallen for this hogwash and Jo Public seems genuinely to believe that it knows just as much - if not more - than experts do.
Oh it’s so bloody depressing

You know what? You want democracy? This is democracy. The people you elected taking charge and making decisions

The people I elected made a decision unanimously to have the Ref in June 16 to let the people decide and subsequently unanimously to trigger A50 - they did take charge and decide.

What we see now are those very same MPs realising that was probably a boo boo and running around like headless chickens trying to find a way they can get out of this self inflicted mess.

he naivety of this post is stunning.

I take the opposite, far more cynical view that most politicians are primarily motivated by furthering their own careers, ambitions and highly questionable agendas. I wouldn’t trust most of them as far as I could throw them, personally“

No, you’re proving my point! They ought to be all of those things I expressed but the current bunch are precisely the opposite, which is the problem.

I worked in the House of Commons many years ago when I was surrounded by people who inspired respect. It’s a very different place now.

I promise you, I am not naive, just desperate for a better calibre if candidate.

Sorry, last one was in reply to DongdingDong (cut and paste playing up)

Few are immune to the corrupting influence of power and so we need to hold politicians to account as much as possible, we should expect the best from them and we should be on the lookout for corruption

I always voted for politicians in in the belief that they had a knowledge and understanding of the important issues of the day extending way beyond my own. Therein lies the problem. I want to be governed by an intellectual elite, by people considerable smarter than I am. The quality of the current bunch is woefully, mediocre at the most optimistic, which is why we find ourselves in the mess we’re in

Totally agree. They are a self serving bunch. Our local MP got in after drafting an elderly MP who retired and had a good reputation. She has done nothing for our town but lie and look after her own interests in Parliament. They are all liars, every single one of them. In fact, the one I despise the most is Anna Subury. Her constituency voted to leave by 10% (55% leave/ 45% stay) and yet look how she has betrayed her voters. She holds them in utter contempt.

Look at the state of all our MP's. Anti-Semitism, expenses scandals and Brexiteers who campaigned hard but who now aren't even involved in the process (Boris). It's a game to them. Its a laugh and a joke because it won't affect them. They are complete scum the lot of them. I am not voting for any of them again. I'll spoil my vote before I do.