To hate school.

[Areyoufree]

Just had to drag my 7 year old and 5 year old to school. Both of them in floods of tears. My 5 year old perked up once he got there, but my 7 year old had to be peeled off me (they are very used to doing this by now), and my last image was of her pale, crumpled, miserable, tear soaked face staring up at me. I don't know why we do this. This is her third year of school now, and it isn't getting any better. She has good days, but I would estimate that 30-40% of the time she is miserable going in, and about 5% she is verging on hysterical. This isn't doing anyone any good, surely? Seeing as our school system isn't a good fit for all children, should we be rethinking it?

Is there any chance she being bullied? I really hope not, but I was bullied badly at aged 7 and it took a while for me to pluck up the courage and admit it to my mum, but it did make
Me absolutely hate school.

We got a private assessment for ADHD for my DS through lengthy waiting lists rather than lack of a referral, and nobody has suggested it might not be "accepted" (school were pushing for it as he is not coping in school either).
If a child is struggling in two settings that will be helpful to a referral and they need not be home and school. How does your DD cope with clubs? or does she not go to any because she doesn't cope?

The morning transition should be a solvable problem. A diagnosis, if she's autistic, might help your case but in practical terms doesn't make much difference. Ask for a meeting with the class teacher and maybe senco to talk about how you can put more structure to support her coming into school. Take a list of stuff she finds difficult. It's reasonable to request, eg, a visual timetable and the teacher explicitly explaining any changes each day, consistent placing for DD and maybe those on her table, a smaller table for her. Re the actual transition itself, my son was a morning "helper" for 2 full years before he could tolerate doing what the rest of the class did at the start of the day. No one pushed him or tried to fix it, they just let him come in early until he decided he was ready. Other children have bean bags, or they come into school slightly late to avoid the crowds, or they start the day with a particular worksheet or spending 5 mins playing with sand timers.

I agree with roundturn about the mass hysteria too. It sounds to me that there are lots of positives about school for your daughter, and you need to sit down with the teacher and hammer out some adjustments to get her anxiety down.

It truly isn’t impossible to get referrals IF needed, however the fact that she can behave appropriately at school does make it harder. If school is not referring through Ed Pysch then go to your GP. Eg, there may be dyspraxia - this can be diagnosed at GPs and then taken into consideration by Ed Dept. Don’t give up, keep pressing for help if you think it is needed.
However, I would agree with PP who have raised the fact that all children of a family to be hating school daily is in my experience unusual. I’ve had six children over quarter of a century so have seen a lot of school-children-in-mornings. Are you happy with your particular school? There are many different atmospheres within schools/headteacher dynamics and it may be you haven’t got the right fit but that doesn’t generalise to schooling-is-one-size-fits-all. My younger children have been in city/heavily old-fashioned/traditional schools as well as village ones with own school farm/farm responsibilities for each child (the donkey is a lot of help with anxious children).
A friend of mine took her children out for a couple of years due to eldest’s difficulties in one particular school, years later when they returned to mainstream education it was the youngest who struggled for a while with dealing with other people, soon settled back in happily though. I suppose I’m saying keep your options open and keep pushing. (It took 8 years for CAMHS to diagnose one of my girls formally, I do understand frustrations. My son took only 6months, through a different route...obvs a different diagnosis but still.

The school system isn't fit for purpose at the moment, which is one of the main reasons why British children have such high rates of mental ill-health. For all the lovely teachers and well-intentioned governors trying to build a warm, enriching environment for kids to learn in, schools are being continually kneecapped by the government: huge funding cuts combined with the tests-and-exams fixation and the culture of constant surveillance and snooping make a lot of schools pretty miserable places for kids. The government's clear preference for profit-seeking, authoritarian academy chains makes it even worse.

isi she like this no matter who drops her off? A woman at our school brings her DD to the road closest to the school, where she is then picked up by a friend for the last 100m or so as for whatever reason, when her mum drops her she's hysterical, but if anyone else does it, she's fine.

I think YABU to say the entire system needs re-evaluating because of your DC. But YANBU to want to find a solution. I'd try other people dropping off as well as thinking carefully about whether you are unconsciously sending signals to your DC. Also push for referrals or seek private help if you can't. And consider a new school - get your DC involved int he decision making and visiting of new schools so they feel it's partly their choice etc. Or homeschool.

My DS struggles with school and when he was in reception drop offs were horrendous. He would cling to me and cry/scream etc. So after a few weeks of this, we agreed that I would take him in 5minutes before the morning bell to the main reception (rather than the classrooom door). A TA or sometimes the teacher would come and get him and take him down to the classroom and he would go in fine that way. They would usually give him a little job to do or something. Could something like that work for your DD?

I don't think the OP is suggesting that on the basis of her two dc the system should be changed. It is far more than her two children. The current school system has evolved from a system that was designed to suit most dc, most of the time but that leaves all dc with a system that doesn't suit them all of the time and some dc for whom it suits them none of the time. Dc for whom the current system fails are anxious children, dyslexic children, adhd children, add children, dyspraxia children dc with other special needs. The system has evolved over time into a broad brush approach that neither stretches the strongest nor lift up the weakest. It is a poor system not fit for today. We need more systems and styles of education with built in flexibility, breaks if needed and focused learning in areas that are required for today. Not two centuries ago.

which is one of the main reasons why British children have such high rates of mental ill-health

Of course, you have proof of that?

The key thing is finding what’s triggering it. Ds is a school refuser so we worked with school to come up with a plan.

He can’t cope with normal drop off times so I take him in via the office whenever we get there. He is met by trusted staff and spends anything from 10 minutes to a couple of hours in his safe space before going to class.

I would consider changing school before anything else.

My two were always happy going to school, and honestly I don’t recall ever seeing children crying and being praised off parents. So no I don’t think the system should change.

But you DO have an option- home school, that’s what it is there for.

Of course, you have proof of that?

Yes, you must not ever read any news at all to have missed the rising rates of mental illness in children. Google is your friend.

I'd consider home schooling... some children just cannot bear the crowds and noise. Not always children with sen, sometimes just particularly sensitive or anxious natured NT children can struggle.
IMO it's better to just take them out rather than risk them having negative associations with education for the rest of their lives.

Is she/are they like it if anyone else takes them to school?

Does the school have a breakfast club? I run one at my school and have found it helpful sometimes for school refusers as it seems to be more of a 'soft' TRANSITION to the school day... Might be worth a try, especially if any of her/their friends go to the B. C.

I would consider home schooling, but it's so hard to know whether that would be the best option.

Does you DD know this? If she knows HE exists and has heard you discuss it as a possibility then she will keep crying and whining and begging not to go in.

rising rates of mental illness in children.

Rising number of children treated. No evidence the numbers are higher than before, just statistics that it is recognised and treated more than it ever was. We didn’t used to think children could have mental health issues, they were just bullied them and called weird and stupid.

No evidence this is a particularly British problem. No evidence it is correlated to the British schooling system.

Google is your friend.
Yeah, that’s not how it works. If someone is going to make a claim like that, it’s up to them to support it. Can you imagine if someone approached Cochrane with a supposition that there are studies which state the schooling system is damaging children’s mental health and their response was to google it.

OP my eldest was like this.
We asked about an ASD assessment and were told 'a home problem'.
We went private. It cost a fortune, said NHS ASD assess needed.
We asked again about assessment and were referred to SS CP team.
Eventually, after moving , he got his NHS ASD dx at 13.

My younger child has just been referred. She 'masks' too. At home she writes notes about 'hating school' (and says why) but school 'see nothing'. But her GP referred her and we will wait and see. She is 11.5.

Good luck. The system doesn't fit all kids well. It can't.

From the pov of a teacher who has had children who are upset at coming into school but happy once they're there, the problem has often stemmed from anxiety about being separated from their parent rather than a dislike of school as such. It's really hard to leave your child when they're upset, but if she genuinely seems happy and settled once there then I don't think you need to remove her. Do they have a specific person come out to greet her and take her in? That sometimes helps.

As for the lack of consistent seating, flexible grouping is quite widely used now but you could ask if your DD could stay in a specific seat for all lessons. That's what I do for the child with ASD in my class.

“Google is your friend”

Many experts suggest that for teens in particular, Google is quite the opposite and the internet a much more likely explanation for the perceived increase in mental health issues than the school system, which works pretty well for the majority.

Can you imagine if someone approached Cochrane with a supposition that there are studies which state the schooling system is damaging children’s mental health and their response was to google it.

It’s mumsnet! Seriously, this is very much discussed, lots of experts in the media etc if you haven’t honestly seen or head of this yet, I’m very surprised. Believe it, don’t believe it, nobody here is obliged to prove a well known fact to you.

Many experts suggest that for teens in particular, Google is quite the opposite

We’re all adults here, what experts actually say is social media can be a contributing factor in anxiety, not ‘google’.

The whole state school system needs remodelling in the UK. Totally agree but HE is fantastic and working for many people now. Your child's mental health is very important. School system here needs a shake up.

Yes, quite right, I put that badly, rebuke accepted : point is though that the social media AND the internet (with such easy access to porn etc.) is without doubt at least partially responsible for the huge increase and is certainly not just a force for good.