Bf rates uk vs us

[Silkyanduna]

Just found out my American sil is expecting and she said they only get 6 weeks maternity and that’s pretty standard for the US. This made me think how much I would have struggled to breastfeed past this point if I had had to go back to work. With the uk in comparison having pretty good maternity leave AIBU to question why the Uk breastfeeding % is lower than in the US ?

Just did 3rd immunisations this week and I just looked in the red book, none of the breastfeeding feeding boxes have been ticked. I suppose I could fill those in 🤷‍♀️

I'm not sure if the uk stats include pumping and bottle feeding but it seems so normal in the states compared to the uk.

Thanks Gotakeahike that's really interesting. Also didn't know about the statistics thing but yeah I can see how really it would be like comparing apples to oranges if different criteria is used for UK/US statistics.

I don't know if thing have changed since mine were babies, but when I was BFing 7ish yrs ago exclusively BF rates were always quoted. So even though my babies were 99% breastfed for around 18 months, they wouldn't count as exclusively BF because they had the very occasional formula feed, it's a rather all or nothing approach.

Re: pumping culture, is this encouraged from birth? It's been a while since i bf but iirc it's not encouraged here until your supply is established.

When I was pregnant I joined a Reddit group for my due month that was about 95% Americans and lots of them started pumping very early as they were trying to build up a big stash in less than three months. To be completely honest I found it a bit sad - they had much shorter mat leaves than anyone I've ever met (of my age) in the UK anyway, it seemed a shame to spend so much of it hooked up to a pump. It also seemed extraordinarily stressful for many of them to try and pump enough milk for a 12 week old during their work day.

I actually think it's one of the reasons I didn't really consider trying to keep up exclusively breastfeeding when I went back to work at six months (well, that and I'd already discovered for myself by then that I loathed pumping) - seeing all these women running themselves ragged with it and do things like get furious with their daycare for feeding the baby 'too much' (ie using up all their expressed milk too quickly) was really off-putting.

And yes, the UK does use a really restrictive definition - which is why it drops to 1% at 6 months because by then almost everyone gives solids. I went to a La Leche League meeting where they gave out a handout of BF rates for the whole world and everyone sat around lamenting how dreadful it was that the UK's 6 month rate was 1% and the next nearest in the whole world was about 15% and I for some reason I wasn't brave enough to point out how implausible that was if they were measuring the same thing.

One thing I don't think I've ever seen is a study comparing EBF babies, combination fed babies and EFF babies. I'm all for encouraging women to breastfeed but I really don't understand the obsession with exclusively breastfeeding. And I think the studies only include EBF babies, not combination fed, as receiving breast milk, which is patently not true.
IMO the reason BF rates in the UK are low is because there is so little support available and so much guilt heaped on women when they turn to formula. I don't know one person who found breastfeeding a breeze but there is woefully little help through the NHS. And the obsession with EBF doesn't help because you give one bottle and are made to feel like you've failed. ALL the advice I found online said not to give any bottles for the first eight weeks or your supply will dry up and you'll never reestablish it. That's nonsense. Ironically, I think if the BF message was relaxed, and support increased, BF rates would go up.
Telling women that their child has more chance of getting cancer if they don't breastfeed helps absolutely no one. It just makes you feel shit when you struggle to do that.

Many only take six weeks off here as well. Average birth age here is very high so obviously this makes breastfeeding less likely both due to biological issues and older women being more confident in going against the grain and doing what works for them. Lower class people in some areas have a culture of fetishising breasts and therefore not breastfeeding which I haven’t seen in other cultures but maybe also applies to the US. The British cultural obsession with how much and when childrensleep also encourages formula feeding.

Who actually cares? Such a dull topic that's repeated so often on here

What are the biological issues to do with older women breastfeeding?

I went to a La Leche League meeting where they gave out a handout of BF rates for the whole world and everyone sat around lamenting how dreadful it was that the UK's 6 month rate was 1% and the next nearest in the whole world was about 15% and I for some reason I wasn't brave enough to point out how implausible that was if they were measuring the same thing.

This is a very good point.

I think the 15% refers to Ireland and there is no fucking way BF rates in Ireland are higher than than the UK at that (or indeed any other) point.

Though thankfully bfing is on the rise in Ireland.

Many only take six weeks off here as well.

I just had a very quick look and couldn't find a figure for average maternity leave - do you have evidence that a large proportion of UK women take only 6 weeks maternity leave? It's completely contrary to my own experience and since (unlike the US) it's almost impossible to find childcare for a baby that young unless you have a nanny I don't see how it can practical for many women.

I'm going to give you a different viewpoint on this as someone who goes back and forth between US and UK often.

I do not think breastfeeding support is shit in the UK, actually, I think there's a lot of pressure to breastfeed in the hospitals here. When I gave birth I was told that the midwives were not allowed to provide any information on formula. They also would not provide any formula to my newborns unless it was a medical emergency. This means you get babies that are dangerously close to being designated as failure to thrive not being provided with anything and putting their health at risk.

The main reason most people breastfeed in the US is because formula is far more expensive. There are no controls on price whereas all the tins in the UK are set around a £10 max. I went through around 1 - 2 tins a week and so my bill was somewhere between £40 - £80 per month max a month for twins. Formula in the US would probably have cost me hundreds a month. 2 tins of similar formula (although these ones are smaller than the ones i used in the UK) in the US is priced at $65
www.amazon.com/Enfamil-Premium-Infant-Formula-21-1/dp/B07MCN8HMV/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?s=gateway&keywords=baby+formula&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1553286075&sr=8-5

This means my formula bill would probably been around $300+/month for twins in the US.

Life in the US is also much more expensive (nappies, clothing, health insurance, copays all cost more than you would spend in the UK) that people don't have the means to formula feed and are forced to breastfeed. It's a money thing more than anything else.

This is actually an interesting thread so far with only a few goady posts

The EBF vs mostly breastfed thing is interesting. Here, they won’t class your baby as reaching 6 months ebf if you give them even one drop of formula or a taste of solids early!
And regarding the ‘hospitals won’t provide formula’ thing, when I was pregnant, I was advised to take some ready made formula ‘just in case’ everyone I know who has had a baby recently has been advised to do the same thing. And we all did. And the midwives are incredibly quick to suggest a formula top up if they can’t get your baby to latch after 3 minutes of trying (that was my experience, anyway) and being a first time mom I did as I was told.
Of course, I’m not saying that this is a bad thing per se, but that would mean DS would not be counted in the statistics as he had maybe three formula top ups in his first week of life.

On another note, I hope I’m not being stupid but how can you express before your baby is born?? Surely you could only get colostrum?

Not had time to read all the replies yet - will do. It wasn’t a dig at people for ff or saying bf is best I was one surprised at such short maternity then surprised uk had lower rates as I thought it would have made it easier ( I hated pumping so hats off to anyone who pumps) so threads not about benefits or negatives of how people chose to feed

@catscakeandchocolate I'm so sorry to read about your experience with your first, that must have been so hard. My DS was premature and also really struggled with breastfeeding, but I was really encouraged in NICU to pump and build up my supply. Even so we massively struggled when he was discharged, he couldn't latch at all and was largely formula fed for a month, I found it really hard to cope with after already having a birth and first few weeks that were so different to the hopes I'd had. It really started to affect our relationship and my mental health.

I was lucky that I was recommended a private lactation consultant by a friend, and could afford it, and she turned things around just as I was on the point of giving up. I'm so sorry you didn't have the support. I 100% believe in choice about how you feed your child but think this overlooks those who really wanted to breastfeed and feel their choice is taken away for whatever reason. Retrospectively I may have put too much pressure on myself as objectively I know there is nothing wrong at all with formula feeding, but i desperately wanted to breastfeed and found it so hard when we struggled.

On another note, I hope I’m not being stupid but how can you express before your baby is born?? Surely you could only get colostrum?

Was it my post that made you think I was saying US women do this, because I talked about joining the group while pregnant? If so, that was me writing unclearly and confusingly, sorry - I meant they were expressing soon after giving birth, but the way I wrote it didn't sound like that

Thanks for the insight NewAccount270219 - you're right that does sound incredibly stressful, I tried pumping but I found it was like a hamster wheel that once I started it was difficult to get off without risking mastitis/being painfully engorged. I found it really restrictive and I was constantly clock watching.

Planeticket - I can't believe how much more expensive formula is in the US! And yes I'd agree that it likely is a contributing factor in why pumping is so popular in the US.

@Cafelatte2go no one is forcing you to read this

They must surely be pumping from the start in order to do freezer stashes.

I also get the impression that pumping at work is more commonplace in other parts of the world. I know that in the UK we can do this too but personally I've never worked anywhere where a colleague has done so, maybe it will become more normal in the future.

If I'd gone back to work (NHS) I can't imagine where they would find for me to pump. Our office spaces tend to be very overcrowded with cupboards being "converted" and desks being put in and a waiting list for meeting rooms to conduct interviews.

Is it goady BF day?

@SnuggyBuggy I lived/worked on an island close to the US for 10 years. It was a common sight to walk into the toilets and see women pumping. There was generally at least one chair in there.

Again this is very anecdotal, like my Reddit story - but when I've been to academic conferences in the US they often have a 'lactation room' (which I think is quite a grim term!) but I've never seen one at a UK conference.

Wow thanks for all the replies. I can’t believe how much formula costs in the US that’s crazy.

It seems like they have a really good pumping culture over there which we don’t over here. Should have realised that really as it’s even in tv programmes from the US. Rachel in friends, Lilly in himym, Pam in the office ect.

Also it does seem really silly that the uk only included ebf in satistics and they seem much tighter on this definition aswell

Many only take six weeks off here as well.

Not sure what you mean by "many" but I don't know a single person who had less than 6 months of maternity leave.

I know all babies are different but I really wouldn't have been any use to an employer at 6 weeks post partum. Do people in this situation sleep at their desks? Drug themselves up with caffeine?

@SnuggyBuggy definitely caffeine! It's actually ok because everyone does it, if that makes sense. If I'd asked for longer, I'd have been precious snowflake little expat woman. All nurseries run from six weeks and all
children move to another nursery at two and a half.