to think it is dangerous & wrong to teach children to think they can be "born into the wrong body" instead of teaching resilience?

[SpeakUpXXWomen]

Stereotypes, lies and thought crime are in and logic is out.

CAMHS is completely overrun and we are in the midst of a mental health epidemic.

We keep pouring money into ideologies with NO scientific basis whatsoever cooked up by people with no child behaviour expertise or qualifications. We are paying these people to undermine children's natural confidence and dismantle safeguarding and sex based rights. We are paying these people to lie to children and it is doing serious damage, targeting vulnerable groups such as those who have suffered abuse or will likely be homosexual adults and those who are on the autistic spectrum.

AIBU to think this is utterly batshit and the money would be better spent teaching children resilience and funding the mental health services we need instead?

Why are we campaigning to help children with eating disorders overcome their difficulties whilst simultaneously forcing healthy children to deny themselves completely if they do not crush themselves into a stereotypical box?

100% agree with OP and @MIdgebabe your parents sound amazing

There is definitely a case for teaching all kids resilience and, despite comments to the contrary, it doesn't mean just telling them to "suck it up". Teaching resilience in schools will help prevent mental health issues in some.

On the subject of kids who feel they are in the wrong body attempting suicide, surely building their resilience would provide them with the tools for life so they wouldn't feel suicidal?

@Madhairday

Excellent, well reasoned post. I agree with all of your points. Let's just do away with the idea of "gender" as a society and everyone can be exactly who they want to be.

I suffered as a teenager with body dysmorphia, and I felt I was too fat and needed cosmetic surgery. I honestly believed to my core this was the only way I would be happy with myself, lipo, breast implants, nose job etc. But I was still myself inside the same person changes or not. I actually then became obsessed with worrying what people thought of be if they found out I'd had cosmetic surgery. It's never enough.

I wish I could of been taught resilience and confidence in who I am. And all this was pre instagram era. Variety is what makes life wonderful. It doesn't have to be the extreme of Barbie or Action man.

So I hear you OP and I dread my geeky sensitive boy being told you can change bodies.

I have always been a laid back parent and my DD was a very "girlie girl". It wasn't forced upon her, she chose her own clothes, hairstyles etc. At 16 she started dating a transsexual. That in it itself was a zero issue to me. Except 6 months later she decided she was in the wrong body, that she was really a boy. She cut off all her hair, changed her name and got a male passport. She started attending a support group. Which, in of itself, is a good thing. I'm glad these things exist. However...no one at the group, or her GP, or anyone, ever questioned "is this what's really going on?" She was very close to being given medication, and she changed her mind. Changed her passport back, grew her hair again and has been female ever since. A few years down the line and she has been diagnosed with ASD, BPD, and depression. But generally she's doing ok.

She's now 28 and until very recently had a long term male partner. They've just split up. But they had been talking about her trying for a baby once she was 30. It terrifies me to think all that could have been taken away from her. Left mutilated and infertile, because all the professionals around her wanted to be "supportive".

I do agree with you, the Tavistock Clinic has seen an stark increase in the number of referrals. 'Being born into the wrong body' is not mutually exclusive, there can be other mental health issues at play as well. It seems as though there are a lot of primary school children who are transgender, and the rush to refer them to clinics and give them medication is very worrying, without further exploring the issue, and that they might change their minds when they are older.

There seems to be a rush to categorise children if they stray out of the norm e.g. a girl that dresses masculine and plays with boys toys might be told that they really want to be a boy and that is what they are, when that is not necessarily the case. The same if a boy likes long hair and Femanine clothes.

If medical care and procedures were all done privately like in the US then I feel that this would be less of an issue. But with our free at point of use NHS, difficult conversations should be had as at the end of the day it is public money being spent and this trans movement is only getting bigger.

Being unhappy in your body is truly shit. I have tuberous breasts. I’ve spent years feeling like I’m not feminine enough. I’ve sobbed in changing rooms more times than I can count. I probably won’t be able to breastfeed. It makes me upset reading MTF transition stories where they talk about wanting womanly breasts and long flowing hair and to feel ‘feminine’. Why does womanhood have to hinge on how you look?

My body isn’t how I’d like it to be either but it isn’t fair to make this society’s problem. We should be breaking down these stereotypes that women should look like x and men should look like y because it just isn’t true. It isn’t fair to keep spending public money reinforcing the idea that people must look a certain way to be happy. I agree with the OP that we should all be trying to be a bit more resilient. It’s not all about looks!

We have to teach them about it because those in genuine need will encounter shallow minded people like the OP throughout their lives and need support to get through it.
Seriously? So because I don't agree with you, I'm shallow minded?

I have genuine need to go on a big holiday every month at your expense. If you disagree, does that make you shallow minded? Or does it make me an entitled idiot in cloud cuckoo land?

The issue is though, only a tiny percentage are in "genuine need" but a lot of mixed up kids are getting swept up with them. And, as many people have said, this can lead to irreversible changes to their bodies.

Actually, there’s a great deal of discomfort amongst exactly those professionals about the current climate, including a senior member of the Tavistock clinic.

This is so very true. And yet we are afraid to speak out because we will lose our jobs.

Professionals (individuals and institutes alike) are too scared to come out and say anything against the trans narrative because of the backlash they'll receive. It's social suicide. There's LOTS of doxxing, writing to employers, threats...

I understand the fear professionals have about speaking their mind but there comes a point when honesty is the best and only policy.

Professionals must do their job and find a way.

The balance point has been tipped quickly and the discussion is now in the open, this is the time when everyone involved has to stand up and make themselves heard. Some are, many more need to. The conversation is ongoing and must be aired.

What a stupid thread. If you knew anything at all about the issue, you would have some grasp of the awful things little children go through before they ever get considered for any treatment for gender dysphoria.

Denying little children's experiences isn't going to make them more 'resilient', it will just put them at risk.

Recognising gender dysphoria isn't about pushing people into stereotypes, it's often about preventing grevious self harm, utter mystery, and a statistically higher suicide rate than any other group. Do some research about the issue before posting this harmful rubbish.

Also it has nothing to do with abuse or homosexuality. Sadly, lots of people are abused. Most of those people grow up to identify as straight and cis gendered. Yes lots of trans people or gay people were also abused, but that's just because abuse is really common among every group :(

'Gender dysphoria' should never have been medicalised because gender is something we bloody created.

That charity Mermaids needs a good looking at; I can't believe the reach and power they have; they received thousands from Comic Relief and Lottery. The CEO seems to be calling the police daily, last night SEVEN City Of London police officers were called to evict ONE lesbian from a room she was entitled to be in because she was making a transperson (ex police person) 'uncomfortable'. The CEO of Mermaids was present I believe. Still, it's good that the police they have cleared up all the knife crime before turning out, oh wait ...

IME the yp I work with who feel this way are very vulnerable. They are not the solid ‘ I know who I am’ children with confidence and supportive parents. They have all had difficult issues and feel strong senses of isolation/abandonment. It is my opinion that they are searching for a connection with themselves that they externalise it in a hope that this will make them feel better.

It is all the more reason to protect them from making life altering decisions. They must have the option to go back if when they grow older they find they feel differently again.

Violet yes you are right, but what if a child changes their mind later on which can happen, and you have given young children drugs
to block puberty or testosterone if they are a girl wanting to be a boy and Oestrogon for a boy wanting to be a girl which can leave lasting effects. Extensive therapy or counselling for such children are needed first before any drugs are given. I think children should wait until they are much older, before making life changing decisions about their body that they might later regret, but somehow we cannot say that, as it would be viewed as being 'transphobic', the TRAs do not like this being discussed and try to curb such concerns and discussion.

'Gender dysphoria' should never have been medicalised because gender is something we bloody created.

Hear, hear!

I have no problem calling someone by whatever pronoun they want. Just don't go all physical and political if I sometimes get it wrong. It isn't deleberate. I get it too.

I have no problem if someone wants to modify their body in whatever way they want to make. Provided I'm not paying for it, and they are old enough to make that decision for themselves.

I don't care if men want to wear clothes more usually found on women, or vice versa. Provided me and my underage female friends and relatives don't have to see male bodies with dicks in the changing room.

I DO care that people who've experienced male privedge all their lives are speaking on MY behalf as a woman who has not.

I DO care when underage people are being encouraged to make life changing decisions about their bodies.

I also care that I am not allowed to say this.

I agree, we tend to do what the USA do, and clinics there are giving primary school children who have gender dysphoria gender hormones, I have heard the pressure is coming over here, I hope not. That is very dangerous giving young children decisions about their body that they might regret for the rest of their lives, and changing them permenantly. I watched a documentary recently about trans kids, there were a few who were speaking, who later changed their minds and they regretted it. The decision was given to them far too early.

^*It will all stop very suddenly when the first child grows up and sues their parents, doctors, school and the NHS for allowing them to be surgically/chemically castrated or sterilised when as a result of their mental confusion they stated that they hated their body and gender.

This entire era will become a national scandal, become the subject of shocked documentaries and be taught in schools*^

Never a truer word spoken.

Very worrying, it should be 18, when they are legally an adult and had time to think about their decision properly, and live in that gender.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk

Another interesting article

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/transitioned-female-male-realised-had-made-mistake/

If you knew anything at all about the issue, you would have some grasp of the awful things little children go through before they ever get considered for any treatment for gender dysphoria

But we do know.

So many of us on here have lived this reality. And now as adults, many of us now middle aged we seem to be near unanimous.

Watch and wait. Teach resilience.

Do NOT allow the child to push for surgery or life changing medication. Not at such a young age. The drivers of this behaviour are not straightforward and are not that well understood.

Those of us who have lived through this are saying loud and clear, surgery, transition would NOT have helped.

Just reread my post..

I don’t think i was clear. I was one of those trans kids. My parent is a big believer in fixed gender roles and tried to get me ‘treated‘ medically for my ‘problem‘

If I’d been 15 years younger I would have been caught up in all of this bullshit.

Im so glad I wasnt lobotomised and neutered.