Following on from the scallions thread . . . . .

[SrSteveOskowski]

Isn't the 'language' difference between Ireland and the UK amazing all the same? And I don't mean the literal language, ie: speaking Irish instead of Welsh, English etc.
More that although we're all speaking English, it can be so different.

For example (I'm Irish) would I confuse people in the UK if I started talking about buggies, minerals, rashers, taytos, the messages and the hot press to name but a few?

How many of you would know what all these things are, or would you just think "What on earth is she on about?"

I asked an English colleague how long he lived in Ireland, he replied long enough to call the a cupboards, Presses, it was funny at the time, As I lived in both the UK and Ireland.
Pencil pearer instead of pencil sharpener, or Mala in the 80s for play dough.

The previous Pope would approve. Nothing like a Historic shift.

www.independent.ie/world-news/pope-approves-use-of-condoms-after-historic-shift-26701369.html

'getting my messages'...

I arrived in Edinburgh to study for an MBA in 1993. I had previously worked in London as a PA for a group of old Etonian types who were very demanding about any 'messages' being passed to them instantly by their secretaries who were never quick enough in their eyes.

I heard Edinburgh had a sauna problem and decided to volunteer at a charity which worked with sex workers - persuading them to have health checks, providing free condoms, offering general support

It was my first shift. I was over keen. I was trying to persuade a well presented worker to come in for a health check. She was hesitant. She said she 'needed to get her messages first'. I said: 'but won't your secretary phone you if there are any really important ones?'

She just looked at me then said: 'Nae too many secretaries down the Docks hen'. (She worked the streets in Leith I later learned)

I volunteered for another 2 years. No one ever let me live it down.

I use "messages" and I'm English

Dh knows he's getting lucky when them knickers come out.

@Chilledout11 - about your message that you posted on Mon 18-Mar-19 21:38:48 - I have a bit of an issue with your description of a housecoat.
To me a housecoat is not a dressing gown (usually made of a terry towling material and fluffy), it is more like a lab coat.

Apart from that, you're on the money!

WhatchaMaCalllit that's what I'd think of as a housecoat too.

When I was at primary school all the infant teachers wore a housecoat over their clothes so stop us little darlings covering them in paint and glitter

@ WhatchaMaCallit Housecoat really emphasises the dub/culchie divide. To most of us culchies a housecoat is as you say a type of lab coat but to dubs it's a dressing gown 😱

My late father (Scottish not Irish) used the word 'semmit' for vest. And 'breeks' for trousers. And 'wee spuggie' for sparrow. And a 'skippit cap' (ie with a brim).

My late mother wore 'housecoats'. Shorter than long fluffy dressing gowns and often made of floral cotton material. Knee length, and buttoned all down the front. Worn over a nightdress, eg when up and about making an early morning cup of tea. Could also be worn in the morning to protect day clothes while doing housework, but this rather frowned on. A wrap-round pinafore was the right garment for that, or simply an apron.

Peelie-wally is not - in my experience - the same 'wally' as in 'wally dugs'. The first 'wally' is a version of ' wallow' which means 'fading away'. The 'wally' in 'wally dugs' means 'fine or beautiful' - also as in 'wally close' (= nicely-decorated entrance to a tenement). It soon came to mean 'made of pottery', because wally dugs were made of that, and wally closes were decorated with glazed tiles of walls and floors.

Wonderful online dictionary of traditional Scots for browsing, with lots of examples of usage: www.dsl.ac.uk/

When we moved to Scotland from London, my husband was taking the supermarket shopping out of the car and a neighbour said 'is that you getting the messages?' Husband was bemused - what messages? I'm Scottish so had to explain.

I'm in the SE and I knew quite a few of these, or could hazard a guess. Press is an old English term for cupboard (Cadfael novels feature lots of things put in presses) so I wonder why it changed in some places and not others?

I know Taytos cause I like to eat them and rashers is used all over. I have a couple from my mum in Yorkshire though; "appon" - implying that someone's unlikely to do something, and "midden"- "your flat mate is a right slut, her room's a midden". Oh, and ginnel for a back alley, I think? One of my cousins also says "mafting" for feeling hot and says "tiny wee" for small, which I think is cute! Anyone else come across these? Or ever been asked to side the table, which my DGM used to say? Also, I'm in Surrey and know loads of people who
call woodlice "cheesy bobs" - is this common elsewhere in the uk? I also say "what's her face" a lot!

Ones that seem varied : A house coat to me is a sort of overall thing that goes over clothes to keep them clean. Plimsolls are just plimsolls. A couple of differences in meaning to people above though. DP has Scots family and they use "peely wally" for cold, and my mum uses clarty to mean a bit naff/not very chic, or over ornamented, eg, my friend who wears a lot of leopard skin and lace and overly fussy jewellery looks a bit "clarty", and my old flatmate with her preponderance for twig hearts and live love laugh signs, had "all that awful clart" all over the place.

When I lived with a Devonian and a girl from Wales, we used to laugh at how we all asked for directions differently- where is it, where's it from, where's it to? I love hearing local differences!

Oh another one is 'mind'. Mind! Meaning watch it, be careful, and minding, meaning, looking after. 'Who's minding the kids?'

Oh- and DPs favourite, no chavs in Scotland, they're Neds.

*Where's it from should be where to is it

Why has this devolved into a thread about Scottish words? Not sure that's what the point of it is.

How? Instead of Why? Used in Glasgow

Most of these 'Irish' terms are also known in Scotland. Words that Irish people think are Irish are often, when not shared with Scotland, from northern England or other English regions that have no cultural profile because England's media and cultural profile is projected from a narrow and unrepresentative centre in London. 'Craic', for instance, is an regional dialect word from England. Whenever you look at maps of word distributions in Britain and Ireland they never have 'Ireland' only or 'Britain' only patterns. The OP's belief that there are systematic differences and unities that contrast 'UK English' with 'Irish English' is based on nationalism and lack of knowledge of the UK, & misguided in linguistic terms.

Feel free to come in and dullsplain Hiberno-English at any point, why don't you.

Has gaff been mentioned (as in house)?

Or skanger? Though that’s probably not a word tolerated on mumsnet.

Or the concept of being ‘happy out’? Which is definitely different, in some indefinable way, from being just ‘happy’?

Anytime I've seen bacon described in the UK, it tends to be what we'd call rashers, eg: bacon butty etc.

To me (and probably the rest of Ireland) bacon is a side of me, normally eaten with cabbage and spuds.

Awh I'd forgotten all about "happy out", haven't used that in years. Yes SrSteve the first time my British OH visited Ireland was at Christmas and he saw the Christmas 'Ham' as opposed to bacon. He still doesn't understand why Irish bacon is called bacon but it's a ham at Christmas, and just calls it all ham now .

it always surprises me how similar so many of our words are, and then again the differences.

Scottish (East Coast) and we say 'doon the toon' as in, going down town. I read upthread about Irish saying 'up town' - is it literally a geographical difference or just word usage? Some of my favorite Scottish words (some mentioned already) are:

Hoo-shoes or baffies - slippers
Ben the hoos - next door
Stoory - dusty
Barkit - dirty
Clipe - tell tale
Dover ower - fall asleep
Chapping - knocking
Pairtee - party

I so miss the family elders. We have lost so much of our language with each passing. There were so many words that have gone from my memory.

Thanks for this thread, OP.

Why has it 'devolved'? Because the British Isles (geographically speaking, not in terms of political boundaries) have a fantastic multi- language heritage, and many very old words have been preserved in regional vocabularies (and people like them and it would be a great shame to lose them).

Also, as previous poster has perfectly reasonably pointed out (don't really see the reason for sarky comments) there is a considerable overlap of these old words between modern regions/political entities, although many of them have disappeared from the currently-dominant SE region. Quite apart from anything else, this overlap is really important historical evidence, for those who might be interested.

@CherryBlossom, I think bacon is cured so salty and 'a nice ham' was a freshly killed pig so was a treat at Christmas after eating bacon all year round.

Oh fuck off with your "British Isles". It's really not that difficult to type "the UK and Ireland" instead you know.

Cherry - to use a favoured Mumsnet phrase, do you have to be so rude?

I was speaking historically. The peoples who lived on the (geographical) British Isles around 2000 years ago - when many the relevant languages were first recorded - did not use the terms you do. Nor did peoples who originated some of the dialect words we have been discussing. The term British Isles is DELIBERATELY POLITICALLY NEUTRAL and is what is conventionally used by historians of the early historical period. I went out of my way not to refer to modern political divisions, because, in the historical context, they are inaccurate and irrelevant. (For heavens sake, as a Scot, I know that Scotland was a separate nation until 1707.) If you choose to take offence at carefully neutral language, then I'm sorry that is your problem, not mine.

If you knew anything about Ireland, and language in Ireland, like you claim to do then you'd know that "British Isles" is most definitely not neutral languge. To even think about suggesting that it is is laughable. I'm genuinely in disbelief at your attitude concerning this. It's not an innocent geographical term like you choose to believe, it's an inherently political one - it implies that British and British identity still has dominance over the Irish state. Take your head out of the and and have some cop on.