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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Aibu to be shocked by 24 hours in police custody

76 replies

Mammajay · 12/03/2019 16:48

So a 15 year old boy rapes a 20 year old girl at knifepoint. He has also sexually assaulted another girl. He has been expelled from school for pulling up a girl's skirt and punching her in the vagina and asking two other girls to suck his penis. So after no commenting in his police interview, he tries saying the girl he raped was a prostitute he paid for sex. The CPS prosecute anyway, but psychiatrist says boy unfit to testify. The trial is held and he is found guilty. The judge orders a full psychiatric report on the boy and no further action is taken. So he is still at liberty to attack other girls and women. Surely something seriously wrong here?

OP posts:

forestafantastica · 13/03/2019 16:36

I spent some time in a secure mental health facility as a patient - not 'secure' as in 'criminals go there' - just somewhere women went because they'd been sectioned as a danger to themselves or others.

It was the furthest thing possible from a holiday camp. It was grim and lonely and scary. The food was disgusting (some days I couldn't eat at all because it was so bad), there was one bathroom which was periodically out of action - once because someone blocked the drains with bloody bandages, once because someone tried to hang themselves from a pipe and it broke - there were no books, no working TV, nothing to do except sit in your room or walk up and down the same stretch of corridor.

We were allowed out in the garden if we had visitors who could sign us out and escort us back in, and lots of people never did.

It was awful. I was that as a suicide risk, by the way, not because I'd committed a crime but because I tried to jump under a train and was having hallucinations. It still felt like a punishment, and I can't imagine it's nicer in the forensic units. Plus if you're admitted to those places you don't have a fixed term sentence like prison - if you don't get better, you just stay there indefinitely. I can't see how that can be an 'easy option'.

user1457017537 · 13/03/2019 16:40

We don’t know if this person was ever sent to a secure unit though do we. Or if, indeed, he was ever punished.

forestafantastica · 13/03/2019 17:12

Well, in this specific case, I thought the ending had him remanding to face psychiatric assessment.

And in general, there have been a lot of people on this post holding forth about what a cop out it is to acknowledge that someone may be mentally unwell and apparently thinking that a psych unit is a way of avoiding punishment.

user1457017537 · 14/03/2019 05:39

I am really not interested in his mental health or whether or not he is mentally unfit to plead or answer questions. Far too many people play that game successfully in my opinion. My concern is for the victims of his serious sexual assaults. At 15 he probably has a lifetime of escalating sexual assaults and more and more victims whose life he could potential ruin.

HappyGoGoLucky · 14/03/2019 06:04

His neck needs wringing

Sweetpea55 · 14/03/2019 06:13

I found his arrogance disgusting.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 14/03/2019 06:14

A dangerous predator out in the community. We don't seem to learn do we about the need to keep women and children safe from dangerous rapists.

floribunda18 · 14/03/2019 06:17

Poster: I'm not spouting rubbish. . Er...?

Travellinghappy · 14/03/2019 06:33

He is not out in the community now if you read the full thread, he was on bail for four months and then that ‘bigotted’ Judge remanded him in custody for sentencing. As the police tweeted he is the subject of a hospital order which means he will be in a secure mental health facility. Think Broadmoor type place. The law has to be followed, anything else would become anarchy and we would go back to the days of bedlam.
He will most likely end up in a young offender MH place until he is 18 and then will be transferred to somewhere like Broadmoor which is by no means a holiday camp, it is an utterly terrifying place. Even when the inmates reach old age and develop dementia/ become bedridden etc they aren’t generally released but go to a sort of secure nursing home which is heavily guarded.

forestafantastica · 14/03/2019 09:26

I am really not interested in his mental health or whether or not he is mentally unfit to plead or answer questions. Far too many people play that game successfully in my opinion

And this is an excellent example of the kind of bullshit comment I was referring to. 'Play that game successfully' is nonsense - it's not a win to be declared unfit to plead trial, because the outcome it actually often harsher than if you'd gone through the penal system. The average sentence for rape in 2009, the last year for which Fullfact have been able to find figures, was 8 years (95.7 months). It's entirely possible that by pleading unfit to stand trial he will spend considerably longer than that in a secure psych facility.

user1457017537 · 14/03/2019 14:03

It’s also entirely possible he won’t spend any time in a secure psych unit but will be treated in the Community where he will be free to reoffend.

Rachel Nichol and a woman in Plumstead were murdered by the same man who was under the care of the local mental health unit. He managed to murder 2 women in the presence of their children.

SpenglerOswald · 14/03/2019 14:21

It’s awful, and terrible for the women denied justice, but that’s what happens when you let ‘mental health’ become a get out of jail card.

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 14/03/2019 16:52

It’s also entirely possible he won’t spend any time in a secure psych unit but will be treated in the Community where he will be free to reoffend.

Rachel Nichol and a woman in Plumstead were murdered by the same man who was under the care of the local mental health unit. He managed to murder 2 women in the presence of their children.

If he is given a hospital order he will absolutely be in a secure hospital... the clue is in the name.

And whilst there are cases of people under mental health services unfortunately committing murder the case of Robert Napper isn't one of them. He had contact with services during his childhood but at the time of the murders he wasn't to my knowledge under their care, there was absolutely a failure of the police to investigate concerns from his.mother but I can't find anywhere saying he was under the care of the local mental health unit.

user1457017537 · 14/03/2019 21:09

He was in a unit near Wimbledon Conmin at the time of the Rachel Nichol murder. There have also been many rapes and a murder of a woman jogging in Victoria Park, Bethnal Green again near units.

user1457017537 · 14/03/2019 21:09

Wimbledon Common

Stompythedinosaur · 14/03/2019 21:18

It’s also entirely possible he won’t spend any time in a secure psych unit but will be treated in the Community where he will be free to reoffend.

This is not true. If he has a hospital order, he will be held in a secure ward.

It’s awful, and terrible for the women denied justice, but that’s what happens when you let ‘mental health’ become a get out of jail card.

It is hardly just to treat someone who commits a crime while very unwell exactly the same as someone who just commits a crime because they choose to.

user1457017537 · 14/03/2019 21:28

Just to reiterate I am more concerned for the victims of serious crimes and the loss of their life as they knew it, than whether or not the crime was committed by someone who was mentally unwell. I advocate on behalf of victims, many of whom will never be the same again.

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 14/03/2019 21:37

He was in a unit near Wimbledon Conmin at the time of the Rachel Nichol murder. There have also been many rapes and a murder of a woman jogging in Victoria Park, Bethnal Green again near units.

Again I cannot find anywhere that suggests he was in mental health services at the time of the murders. If he were then surely every news report would be reporting the failure of mental health services as they have in other cases. I'm happy to be proven otherwise but everything I've read states Napper was only admitted to a mental health unit (Broadmoor) after the murder of Samantha and Jasmine Bisset.

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 14/03/2019 21:44

Has anyone on this thread suggested they dont advocate for victims?

SuziQ10 · 14/03/2019 22:37

I often worry about all the criminals who are not properly detained. Out on bail.. short sentences...day release.
I work somewhere where we interact frequently with ex-prisoners. Some have committed terrible crimes and are out, generally after serving pretty short sentences and are in public areas mixing as normal. Near children etc.. even if their crimes where sexual / against children. There's nothing to stop them being in the vicinity.

thenightsky · 15/03/2019 00:27

Just watching this now. God, he's an arrogant sod.

hellenbackagen · 15/03/2019 00:41

Exactly why being a cop is a head fuck and thankless task most days.

RedHelenB · 15/03/2019 10:53

Its the solicitor that annoyed me, reading out that statement they'd cone up with that she was an escort.

Sallyspoons · 18/03/2019 21:16

Tonight’s episode is horrific and it’s only been on 15 mins. Evil evil scum

MonkeyfaceThereturn · 18/03/2019 21:21

I didn't see the introduction and sadly started watching at the interview.

That's my next few days ruined and will have to see my mental health nurse. Ffs.

My heart literally breaks for the children.

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