AIBU all dogs should be kept on a lead outside of specified dog walking areas

[Scrowy]

YES

I am being unreasonable.

I apologise for the deliberately inflammatory title. But this is about groundnesting birds which are in serious decline.

BUT last year we set up some wildlife cameras close to known nesting points for curlews on our farm. What we saw was the parent birds frequently being disturbed by dogs 'playing'.

Year on year curlew numbers have decreased on our farm, despite no changes in farming methods.

What has increased is dog walkers and dogs off leads. Other predator numbers are largely the same or reduced according to Natural England. We can therefore only conclude that the frequent disturbances from domestic dogs are compromising successful curlew breeding.

If you use farmland to walk your dogs please keep them on a lead during groundnesting season (1st March - 31st July). Every countryside guideline and national park also requests this, but most people ignore it.

I know it's a bit shit you can't let your dogs disappear off and enjoy themselves for a bit, but it's really not good for the environment. Feel free to do as you please during winter.

I agree with what you say in your post but not your post’s title - your post and your post’s title don’t say the same thing!

I 100% agree that dogs should be kept on leads anywhere where it is requested that they are kept on leads - such as in national parks

Cats do kill millions of garden birds. Often fledglings. Yes other birds kill birds which is 100% natural. But the number of cats in the UK means we still loose millions a year to them. The rspb have done studies on this, and although its not the only cause of decline its a major factor.

"Fenton.........Fenton.........Oh Jesus Christ......Shit........!!"

Seriously, I would apply to restrict access if that is at all possible. Curlews are beautiful birds and they have the most amazing call to listen to at night.

Humans are all about bending nature around their will. This is why life as we know it will come to an end until humans also perish.

This happened near our local vets last month - this dog worker was extraordinarily lucky - difficult to imagine a worse way to die. If you are not inspired to keep your dog on the lead near farm land for the good of the animals, read on for another motivation -

swns.com/latest-work/up-sht-eek-pensioner-saved-after-sinking-up-to-his-neck-in-manure/

This from the RSPB is informative:

www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations.

Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland.

Dog owner and massive bird and nature loved here.I stay well clear of our local resevoirs and nature reserves from now on until the Autumn as my dogs off lead have excellent recall but do run around like crazy in open spaces.Inadvertently they would crash through nests.There were signs up recently as twite - another endangered bird - were nesting and I would clip my dogs on but too many didn't. Likewise I dont walk on recreation grounds and in parks.
Luckily there is a lot of woodland as an alternative that is privately owned but they are happy for respectful dog owners to walk in .You are right OP there's a big increase in dog ownership,and an increasing load of idiots who regard their dogs as 'fur babies ' who can do no wrong.
I'm equally frustrated by the oflifting green belt restrictions for building right up to ancient woodland when acres of brownfield goes undeveloped.I doubt we will hear the sound of tawny owls much longer with all the light pollution.

To clarify the increase in dogs being off leads - I'm talking specifically about the area I am in, 10 years ago we rarely saw a dog walker. These days it's become a dog walking hotspot and last Sunday we counted 12 different cars (we were working in fields nearby) park up and let 1 or more dogs out to run around the surrounding moorland in the space of a few hours. That's in a few hours on one day.

its the law to keep your dog on a lead on open access land between 1st March 31st July under the Countryside and Rights of Way act 2000.

Virtually everyone ignores this and it's having a huge impact on groundnesting birds. Even if the dogs don't harm the birds or the nests, just the act of disturbing the parent birds can leave the nests vulnerable from other predators or the eggs getting cold.

The Peak District National Park Authority run the Take The Lead campaign to try and highlight this.

Dog owners have plenty of reasons to keep dogs on leads.
However ...
'If you can't run that fast, then don't have a dog of that breed.'
Can all greyhound owners run as fast as their dogs? Really?
Better to have areas for dogs to run offlead as suggested in the OP or nobody would rehome them.
My standard poodle was pretty nippy. There was a stretch of the park he could zoom about in when the coast was clear.
I would not have kept up because I am not a cheetah.

Yes - and cats too.

Considering modern agricultural practices and the use of pesticides, loose dogs are the least of the problems birds have.

Thanks, OP. I’ll stick this info on the local Facebook page - will give people something fresh to row about other than dog and horse poo!

Considering modern agricultural practices and the use of pesticides, loose dogs are the least of the problems birds have.

Actually they aren't booboo dogs are a massive problem on moorland.

Most moorland has extremely restricted sheep numbers these days. No reason for any pesticides to be used.

That's kind of the whole point of the OP.

I know people love to blame farmers for everything these days but this is specifically about dogs off leads in areas where groundnesting birds are.

Every little helps as they say.

YANBU. In Australia we manage this. All dogs on leash at all time except where permitted not to be. Times and seasons vary.

As for cats, even the RSPB does not. blame them for bird decline, it's lack of habitat and use of pesticides.

I'll be honest in saying I didn't know about these ground nest birds at all it's maybe something that does need signage and some additional fence similar to chicken wire.

We have swifts and starlings in the stable and put a small piece of mesh running along the stable beams cos their nest was so precariously balanced and we had a few chicks dead on the ground once or twice.

The other thing few people seem to appreciate is how breeds can vary enormously when it comes to finding birds, mice, voles and that kind of thing.

My two dogs (border collies) won't touch or disrupt any birds, nests and small animals but found an egg that was blown out of the tree behind ours a few days ago.

Searched and it was a collared dove which looked about ready to hatch :(

I will do some reading up about the nests though we're right out in the sticks and have all kinds of wildlife.

My previous damn cat probably was single-pawedly responsible for the demise of half the area's wildlife despite our best efforts. She was like black lightning. The current mog is fat, white, fluffy and utterly inept, so presumably only catches wildlife with an actual death wish.

I have family in the US, in their state it is illegal and enforceable by fine to have your dog off lead apart from in a dog park. The dog parks are HUUUUUGE so it's not like they can't run.

TBH you cant't let them off lead in a lot of areas due to rattle snakes anyway but the whole system just seems to work better.

@scrowy - I had no idea about that at all. What is open access land - common? There are no signs or info on any of the ccommons we walk on. Ddog has shite recall, and he's diabetic so can't risk him scavenging, he doesn't get let off anyway, but that's really interesting.

I've lived out in the sticks for 30 years and I don't think anyone has their dog on a lead unless they (the dogs!) are aggressive nutters. We live in a conservation area with lots of wildlife reserves but even the farmer who manages these walks his dogs off lead. The only time dogs ever worry sheep is when people from the local town come here expressly to walk their dogs and do not supervise them (usually because they are sat in a car stuffing their faces tbh).

No, I’m a dog owner. Don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. Most areas have somewhere you can let them off the lead without bothering anyone/anything.

I’m a dog owner and I agree with you op. Our dog is kept on a lead in the park (she’s a terrier, ducks and small children are her favourite thing ever, so we keep her close to us 😄) She’s run off the lead 3 times a week in a dog walking field, and walked twice on other days on a lead. She’s well trained, but she’s a terrier, and you can’t 100% rely on training winning against instinct, so we don’t risk it.

You aren’t going to get consensus here unfortunately OP. I agree with you and as a dog owner and living rurally, I keep my dog on lead in the designated areas. She also has excellent recall.
Sadly, so many people just don’t give a damn. I’ve lost count of the number of mountain bikes thundering along footpaths, in woodlands, churning them up and scaring the life out of walkers. Do they take kindly to being told they aren’t allowed to cycle on footpaths? Do they fuck? I can’t believe that this behaviour helps wildlife either.

YANBU - my dog does not have good recall anyway so I wouldn’t let her off the lead apart from in specified dog areas. Can’t understand why others don’t have the sane attitude!!

You make a point about dog walkers though. What has changed in recent years is lots of people employing dog walkers - often with minimal training, a lot of dogs and little accountability - and I wonder if that is causing some of the problems you are seeing, Vs a lot of individual owners.

Around here we have some rubbish dog walkers.
One of them had a cocker spaniel run up and snatch food out of my three year old's hand, and then had the gall to snap at us that we shouldn't have a picnic in a park where dogs are allowed off lead!

YANBU , I have a patterdale mix and I’m very careful about where he is allowed off lead not only for the safety of any other animals / wildlife but also for his own safety . We have a local heath where we walk most days off lead but he is still always in sight of me and generally never more than 30/50 m away at the furthest . I can’t understand the mentality of people who’s dogs disappear from sight and could be up to god knows what ,

professional dog walkers are the bane of my life actually

We have a new one who drives here in a van, opens the back, lets the dogs run wild in the fields by our house while she sits there on her phone. Last week one ran down our lane and into my drive and had a right bark at me getting out of my car. People like that give dogs off lead a bad name, as opposed to the 90 year old man who lives in our village who come rain or shine, shuffles up the lane with Monty, his terrier, off the lead happily trogging along behind him, stopping to sniff and generally having a lovely time. Man is far too infirm to have a dog on a lead.