To ask if we are seriously supposed to give two flying fucks that “failing to deliver a Brexit might be devastating for the Conservative Party” - according to Jeremy Hunt

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www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-brexit-vote-theresa-may-second-referendum-bbc-andrew-mar-a8816206.html

The entire shit show that we have had to endure over the last three years has largely, IMO, been down to the Tories’ desire to keep their Party together. Referendum included.

It’s obvious that Party comes before country for many of them including Theresa May, but when they have the effrontery (or honesty) of trying to say that Brexit has to happen or the Party will implode? Pass me the smallest violin you can find .

Yes, all of this because David Cameron wanted to deal with the Eurosceptics in his party for good. It's so depressing.

So is it not happening now?

I sort of hope that delivering Brexit (if they manage it) might also be devastating for them - given the years of wrangling and negotiating to come, and the potential for disagreement.

What a monumental waste of government time and energy and public money to put us in a worse position than we are now. All the while councils are underfunded, social care is falling apart, schools are crumbling, knife crime increases. All the Tories can do is argue over something that the majority of the country didn’t feel very strongly about until Cameron decided to hold a referendum to keep the party together.

And in the face of this, Labour under Corbyn aren’t even ahead in the polls.

I despair.

Wasn’t that obvious from the off?

I wrote to my Tory MP about this. He sent a generic Brexit reply. I wrote back asking for specific answers not generic ones.

He still hasn’t responded 🤔

Yes wouldn't it be brilliant, then Labour can step in and make everything magically better

I don’t think he’s talking to you. He’s talking to the lunatic fringe of his party trying to get them to see sense. As such, the remarks seem highly relevant.

Direct quote from the article

"If you want to stop Brexit you only need to do three things - kill this deal, get an extension and then have a second referendum“

So the government knows perfectly well that if they hold a second referendum the result is likely to be Remain.
Most MPs are supposedly in favour of Remain.
Most businesses support Remain
Areas that voted Leave are the most likely to suffer most if we leave.

So what everyone is saying is we want to stay, and if you let us have another vote having seen the alternative, we will vote to stay.
But, there is a small (minority) noisy group of MPs who want to leave, so we’re leaving.

I think the torys have got themselves into a lose lose situation. Labour as facilitators.

Well, at least he is actually admiting that Party comes first. It would have been more honest if Dave had said so in the first place. All if the time, money and angst that has been wasted on this debacle, all to try a heal the Conservative party and blow the Country.
The Union is at risk, the country is divided but his biggest concern is the Party.
What a pity that Labour are such a disaster area.

So if they lose the vote tomorrow, is Brexit cancelled?

errorofjudgement

So the government knows perfectly well that if they hold a second referendum the result is likely to be Remain.

"likely to be" are the keywords there.

From what I have seen the results would be on the same knife edge as the first one.

What a selfish shit shower they are! I hope they all disappear up their own backsides. The buch on entitled losers.

Its just been one enormous incompetent shit show from the go. The rest of the world must be pissing themselves at us. Its just a lose lose situation for the Tories now and whilst that brings me a little bit of petty joy, I no longer have faith in Labor to be able to clean up any messes made should they gain power again. Were all fucked unless its revoked, which I cannot see happening at all as the Tories would get burned at the stake and they know it. Thats the only reason they are continuing to move forward with it. It is absolutely beyond me as to why this was even up for public vote in the first place.

Dunno why more people don’t join the independent group. Why have a party affiliation? Both parties should split. Labour into new labour vs Corbynites and tories into UKIP vs remainers.

Everything that 92AP just said!

Yes.92AP is spot on. Put it better than me

Political commentator David Runciman predicted exactly this - that Brexit could spell the end of the most effective election-winning machine in history. In normal times, this would probably be good news.

Has anyone noticed the slump in donations to the Conservative party? Astonishingly, even with the attack on Labour Party in the Trade Union Act in 2016, funds raised by individual donations to labour exceeded those to the Tories. This is truly terrible news to a Conservative party that relies on a small number of very large donations from the super-wealthy.

I’m not a Corbyn fan, but if I was Corbyn, the first thing I would do, to create a lasting legacy, would be to impose a £50 per person cap on individual donations to all political parties and a ban on corporate donations. Donations via unions are already individual donations from each member, who must opt in and then decide every three years whether to continue donating. That’s the conservatives f**ked forever - right there.

I should have said the ‘attack on Labour Party funding in the trade union act’ or my post doesn’t make sense!

So the government knows perfectly well that if they hold a second referendum the result is likely to be Remain

The latest poll analysis I've seen concludes that 7% of voters who voted Leave would now vote Remain but 8% of voters who voted Remain would now vote Leave. Out of the people who didn't vote last time (either because they couldn't be bothered or they were too young to vote) a higher percentage would vote Remain - but there's no guarantee they would turn out for a second referendum - the 72% turn-out last time was already very high.The analyst also pointed out that a well run campaign by either side would be a factor in how people voted next time. Conclusion - anyone's guess who would win a second referendum.

Personally I would vote for whatever is most devastating for the Tory party. They need to be consigned to the dustbin of history.

If the side effect of that is that we don't leave the EU, so much the better.

8% of voters who voted Remain would now vote Leave

Why, have lobotomies become compulsory in some NHS trusts since 2016?

They’re damned regardless of whether they ‘deliver’ brexit or not. They haven’t dealt with brexit competently and now they must pay for it.

Why, have lobotomies become compulsory in some NHS trusts since 2016?

Perhaps they've read too many Brexit Alpocalypse stories and they think some Remainers are a bit loopy?

@tonightjosephine it’s become quite clear since the vote tha the problems with the EU are very much entrenched and the leadership too inflexible/unpragmatic. Before the referendum I felt the EU was in theory was a fabulous idea that perhaps went a little awry but was very easily flexible. Since the referendum I’ve realised that it’s a bit of a shitshow and things within the EU will have to get really really bad before they consider reform. It’s very sad. It’s such a brilliant idea but has been so ineptly implemented. Too many politicians not enough people with business experience. You’d think that in a primarily trade driven union the legislature would at least attempt to consult people from the real world but apparently that’s too obvious an idea.

Iggly

I’m afraid you’ll probably be waiting for a very long time. I worked for an MP. They rarely, if ever, write their own letters. In exceptional circumstances they do, if it’s an high profile or very controversial one off issue, or if they can wring a bit of positive PR out of it. Usually though it’s staff printing a standard reply from file.
If I sound cynical, it’s because I am I went into the job thinking I would be working with good, motivated people who were trying to change people’s lives for the better and this was true, generally, of support staff. Almost all, with a few notable
exceptions, of the MPs I met, of whatever persuasion, were motivated by what this stepping stone could do for their long term careers and profile.
This was a good few years ago. Maybe things have changed for the better. Though looking at the quality and credentials of the majority of today's incumbents of both Houses, I sincerely doubt that.