To make an official complaint about the NHS?

[Tuplo]

Also, has anyone made one?

Last year I went several times to my GP and got told my symptoms were due to menopause. Then one day I was suddenly in agony - on the floor type agony. Phoned an ambulance, told it was non urgent, friend took me to a&e. Spent hours being examined and having x-rays, told needed further tests but could go home as was too late to do them. Came back, admitted, condition partially diagnosed but needed more investigation still, possible cancer, two weeks for tests then surgery.

At that point I was given a discharge sheet outlining everything including that I was given open access to the ward and told to return if intense pain came back as this would be an emergency and I would need surgery immediately.

Pain recurred, thankfully ambulance sent this time, blue lighted screaming and vomiting. Got to hospital, couldn't get into ward for an hour, no one answering.

Eventually got in, dr examined, showed him paper drawn up six hours previous, ignored this said he thought I had a kidney infection, banging on my back and asking if it hurt.

Left in ward waiting area where nurse gave me paracetamol and told me dr had said to take this and then I could go home. Screaming, crying, vomiting all the time.

This repeated several times over the next few hours. Healthcare assistants walking in and out as I lay across chairs vomiting. Asked me what I'd had to eat that night and when I said nothing opined that this was why I was vomiting and in so much pain and should look after myself.

Overhead a conversation between dr and a nurse with dr saying I couldn't possibly have the complication (which it turned out I had) and her saying she thought I did. Also overhead another nurse saying, repeatedly, as I vomited, that "it's noisy in here tonight".

Eventually nice nurse came and told me I was being admitted, four hours after getting in under supposedly open access.

Had emergency surgery the next day.

A couple of months later did put in informal complaint about dr, got a letter back saying my admission had been delayed because no dr was available. They're lying. I saw a Dr. He just failed to diagnose me, even when it was all there in my notes.

It's taken me a long time to recover from the surgery, which was major. It's going to take me even longer to get over this dr's attitude. At two separate points while I was vomming all over the waiting room he came in and said 'what do you want me to do?' I fucking hate him. I thought I was going to fucking die and he was refusing to help me. He's a cunt that should never be allowed near another patient.

But: is it worth making a complaint? They've already lied to me once. Should I just get over it? (Somehow. I don't know how.)

I don’t think you’ve given enough information here for the internet to decide if YABU or not as it is one sided. But yes do complain and then it will go through the correct channels.

My friend had cancer after prewarning screening tests came back clear over many years, doctors ignored her sysptoms because the tests were clear. However now they have been reviewed and found that they should have shown changes much sooner and it would not have got to the stage it did she is making a complaint - and in that 2 Dr's are lying - denying things they said in her appointment which, being that she is on of hundreds they saw they could not be sure to remember - however their lies are being believed above my friend.

Drs when they get it wrong and then lie to cover their arses erode the trust in their profession.

I would complain but have to warn you that you are unlikely to get them to admit to what happened. Even if you 100% know you saw a doctor they will probably not admit to this. It will help you to complain as it will be quite cathartic and behind the scenes hopefully it will ensure other patients do not suffer. However, in terms of a formal response they are likely to say 'we are sorry you suffered and take your feedback into account' which admittedly is not too helpful. Sorry for your experience

As a nurse I am so sorry you went through this. Yes you should complain. Even if I'm being my most generous and thinking this Doctor was junior and perhaps the only one on with a staggering work load then as a nurse I am your advocate and would have made sure I made the doctor listen to the potential severity of the situation given how much pain you were in and your history.
Complaining does not mean suing but there is an opportunity if you make a complaint for this to be followed up with the staff involved so that (hopefully) lessons can be learned.
I've never had a complaint made against me personally but if I did would most certainly want the opportunity to apologise in person and measures to be put in place to ensure it didn't happen again.
When this happens internally staff do sometimes raise concerns themselves by reporting an incident like this. In an ideal world whoever eventually did the surgery and/or looked after you afterwards reported the incident with concerns over how long it took to get you the care you needed. PALS may be able to tell you this.
I 100% encourage you to complain.

Have you requested a copy of you notes from the hospital. This may have information which backs up your complaint in them.

I formally complained about where I gave birth (so did quite a few women). They now have more staff and have changed their processes

At risk of sounding like a dick, but hear me out...

I was just wondering (rhetorically) whether you have any mental health problems. Sadly there is sometimes ‘diagnostic overshadowing’ whereby a person with MH difficulties has their physical health needs ignored. Particularly when it is abdominal pain, you can get dismissed as just another hysterical woman...

Definitely complain.
I did via PALs a few years ago but they just closed ranks.
Didn’t have the energy to hire ‘no win no fee’ type people, but if you have then go for it.
My experience of the NHS is that they’re great 95% of the time but fucking useless the rest. It’s a bit of a lottery as to who you see.
All the best.

I would definitely complain

Be prepared for nothing to happen, my family have complained 3 times over various things and nothing happened

To be fair 2 of those things were about 20 years ago so the complaint system may have changed

I agree with surfer...when the NHS is good its very very good, when its not...its shit

Were you really demanding IV morphine, OP? And being really loud?

One of my family members did after them being fobbed off by hospital staff for days, even although the family member knew what was wrong as it had happened before and knew they couldn't be treated in that particular hospital. I don't really want to say what eventually happened to them but it was awful and they nearly died. They have been left with permanent disabilities and are going through the complaints process at the moment.

I would make an official complaint and refer to your informal one in it too.
Although I wouldn’t hold out for much more than another defence letter.
I had some severe medical negligence when I was younger and all I ever got back was defensive letters laying out why my points were wrong and how the doctors acted perfectly.

As there is a nationwide shortage of beds, I daresay the reason you spent hours in a waiting area was because they didn't have a bed to put you in. Loads of patients with open access spend hours in a and e waiting for a space on the ward. I think 4 hours is actually quite good. We have had patients sitting in a and e waiting room for 10 hours, waiting for a free cubicle, so the medics or surgeons etc can see them in our dept, then waiting hours more for a bed. Just because you have open access doesn't mean they're saving a bed just in case you need it.
I'm sorry they treated you so badly and I'm sure you do have a reason to complain to pals about it. The admission part of it isnt the dd's fault tho.
Its horrendous trying to find beds that don't exist and it does affect staff morale too, nobody enjoys seeing ill patients who aren't getting the care we would like to give them.

My dad died 2 months ago & I wish I could make a complaint about our GP surgery because I feel that they neglected him & had they acted sooner, he may still be alive. I'm not his next of kin, my mum is & she won't complain, she is of the age that doctors have God like status. My dad had been suffering from kidney disease caused by him being prescribed a diabetes drug, he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, but he lost a lot of weight over 2 years, he kept on having bouts of being ill, constant nausea & vomiting that lasted several months & the loss of weight cured his diabetes, the doctors kept on saying that it was general old age & never checked to see if he still needed the drug, just increased it. It turned out the bouts of sickness were a symptom of kidney disease, caused by the diabetes drug, then after having blood tests he got a phone call telling him to stop taking the drug, the sickness cleared up once he stopped taking it. The doctors never did anything about the kidney disease, just treated it as a symptom of old age & his body starting to fail, until last Christmas when he became very ill & unable to get out of bed, he became full of fluid & the doctor diagnosed heart failure & put him on diuretics, a week in to the new year he had some more blood tests done & at 10.00pm the same day got a phone call from the hospital to say they needed him in hospital the next morning, his kidneys had completely failed. He was admitted to hospital the next morning & died what I would call an awful death 9 days later after the family being called several times when staff thought he was dying but rallying enough for them to be sent home again. I feel that if our GP had done more earlier & got him referred to the kidney unit when he first knew he had kidney disease then they may have been able to do something, plus prescribing him the drug that damaged his kidneys in the first place, if more care had been taken then this shouldn't have happened. I don't want money, I would just like the doctor to admit that mistakes were made & apologise.

Hello OP, I used to work in the NHS and you need to raise a complaint about all this.

I know you said you made an original complaint but it sounds like this wasn’t dealt with satisfactorily. You did see a doctor, it may be that they felt you needed to see another doctor who wasn’t available but if they haven’t explained that then you won’t know.

Secondly there’s no excuse for being spoken to badly and that needs highlighting. I was a nurse and would never have left someone vomiting alone when they were clearly in pain,

Go back to PALS and ask for a review of your records with someone who can make sense of it. That night answer your questions about procedures and how long things took. However a definitel complaint needed about attitudes and the way you were spoken to.

It may be that ththe doctor you saw is no longer there as the junior ones do move around quite a lot.

You should complain.
Have you spoken to PALS?
Reading your OP it sounds as if they are taking your complaint at least in part as a complaint about your wait to be admitted,hence the reply that a Dr wasn't available.I don't think that was necessarily a lie - just because the Dr was available later doesn't mean he was at the point when you arrived at the hospital.
But the way he treated you...I would want to know why he dismissed the possibility of the complication you did have,when he had the written information from your previous visit.Why did he think you were in so much pain etc etc.
The hospital should address that.If it costs money,that is a good use of resources if it results in better care for patients in the future.And apart from anything else this sounds as if it should be being flagged up by the hospitals internal audit processes?

I haven't read the full thread yet but wanted to say I had a similar experience.
I went to GP multiple times and was robbed off, I ended up going to A&E and again was told it was nothing. I ended up having emergency surgery a week later after 3 different Drs had missed my symptoms. I went down the route of complaining and it was months before I got a proper conclusion. It was full of excuses including them saying they believed the Dr had given me a thorough examination and found nothing and that my symptoms likely developed in the time between my a&e visit and the surgery!!!
They will never admit they've done anything wrong. It's so wrong OP and absolutely complain but don't expect the to write back full or apologies and admissions and A big fat cheque as it won't happen!

Have you spoken to PALS? We made a complaint about treatment my dad had which resulted in him having a heart attack because another condition wasn't treated properly.

They helped us make an official complaint and then we were offered a meeting with senior consultants and matrons. They took it very seriously but were very supportive and answered our questions and went through his notes and examined every decision that led up to the event.

They explained the changes that they were implementing to stop this happening in the future and told us how they had spoken to the staff concerned and how they had been dealt with.

It was very cathartic for us and helped us all, dad included, to resolve our feelings about it. It wasn't adversarial at all but clear that they welcomed the feedback and the opportunity really to debrief us.

I would recommend this if you feel up to it but maybe think about the outcome that you want. We wanted explanations and assurances that processes would change so that it didn't happen again and I made this clear to everyone.

"got a letter back saying my admission had been delayed because no dr was available. [this was a lie because I saw a doctor]"

I suspect this means a certain type of doctor or doctor with the correct authority was not available, or that there was a delay before you saw the doctor you did see and everything else was slowed down on back of that initial delay. Not all doctors are the same sort, have the same powers.

I think you're going to run into a lot of technicalities like that if you pursue this (which may make you feel more frustrated than ever). Also, they will point out that they can only diagnose based on the symptoms as the symptoms present. It's not NHS to run every possible test under the sun based on diverse symptoms. So that will explain the delayed diagnosis which I think ultimately is OP's biggest complaint.

Since the past can't be changed, What do you want at the end of this? A mere apology? I don't believe that review of your specific case will lead to faster diagnosis for others with same condition.

Go back to PALS

Yes complain but sadly the best you can hope for is an ‘we are sorry you are upset,’ type of non apology and instead a pat on their own backs for eventually sorting you out. However, name the doctor and explicitly detail your complaint and ask for their comments.

I wouldn’t actually add the bits about the nurse mentioning your vomiting noises etc as they detract from the main complaint.

Unfortunately it’s common for out of hours emergency admissions to have plans ignored by covering junior doctors.

By all means do complain to the GMC but unfortunately don’t expect much, they are non punitive and will only even conduct an investigation in certain cases. However no doctor wants a letter from them.

Finally, will people stop mentioning legal action so freely? The only purpose of legal action is to recover financial losses. Nothing more and OP hasn’t mentioned any. If there is one sure way to drag out the pain of this it would be to visit a lawyer.

We were forced to take legal action after several complaints (about the same incident) were rebuffed despite overwhelming evidence.

So we took legal action, for £1, in order to ensure the same nurse was never again able to wield such power and cause such incalculable distress again.

It was never about money (hence the £1), it was to make sure that nobody else under her care died in the way my mother did.

If they hadn't lied and covered up the repeated complaints, we wouldn't have had to.

My Ex DH was one of the rare ones, he did get an apology and his complaint taken seriously. He was discharged following knee surgery, complaining he was feeling unwell and had a high temperature, that night he was rushed in to hospital with pneumonia and a pulmonary embolism, nearly died. I remember we went to a meeting in person with a panel of people round a table, and the consultant stood up and apologised at the end, it is I believe rare but he couldn't dispute the facts.

Yep complain. Awful

Start with a subject access request to get a copy of your notes relating to the 2 relevant attendances. As for any electronic records relating to the attendances too.

This will allow you to take a factual approach to a complaint.

Think about what you want to achieve with the complaint

Do you want lessons to be learnt and other people never to experience what you did?
That is likely to result in a positive outcome of training and education

I'm sorry for what you experienced, people are fallible but should always be kind

I have worked for several years in roles linked to NHS complaints. Some organisations are much better at dealing with and responding to complaints than others. I would say that you should definitely complain after your terrible experience as it may give you some answers about what happened and why that could help you to deal with it. But you do need to be clear (and realistic) about the outcome you want. It's extremely unlikely that a doctor will lose their job on the basis of one person making a complaint. However if you're one of many people complaining about the same person (which they won't be able to tell you) then that's a very different situation. So it is important that you make them aware as you may be adding to other information they already have. The doctor will also have to reflect on the complaint at their annual appraisal (part of GMC revalidation requirements). The aim of the complaints process is to ensure improvements are made rather than to target individual staff, so this is a more realistic outcome if that is one you would be happy with.

Be clear about how you want the complaint to be dealt with - do you want to be communicated with in writing or do you want to meet with someone to discuss it? You can contact PALS or there are independent advocacy services who are not part of the NHS who can help you through the process.

The GMC are unlikely to get involved until you have been through the NHS complaints process, but again it's dependent on other information they already hold about the same doctor.

Good luck OP, I hope the process is of some help to you if you do decide to complain.