to end/withdraw from this friendship?

[Whydoesshedoitffs]

I’ve NC for this as I post a lot and am very candid and this post is going to be very recognisable. This is going to be very long but I think the history is necessary so if you have the time I’d really appreciate any advice.

I have a friend of 12 years. She’s someone I’ve become close to over the years and she’s been a really good friend.

When I met her she was married. We got to know her husband and became friends with him too and we (her, her DH, me, my DH) used to socialise a lot together.

We also were all part of a bigger friendship group who met through a hobby - we were largely a fairly young group, no kids, hard drinking, lots of going out etc.

After about 5 years she cheated on her husband. She told him immediately, they split up, she and the OM became serious and started a proper relationship. OM was part of the wider friendship group.

I told her that whilst I thought what she did was terrible and couldn’t condone it I was her friend, I was also her husband’s friend, I hoped she didn’t regret things and hoped they’d all be ok.

Fast forward 6 years. She married OM nearly a year ago, her EXH is with someone else, she and I have become really close, I was her MoH.

She messages me about 3 months after the wedding telling me her DH has moved out because he found intimate messages between her and a supposed mutual friend, we’ll call him WH (wankhead).

I told her she was an idiot, helped her through her crisis etc but again, never condoned the cheating but I admit to feeling really angry with her.

WH is a shit - he had a 3 month old baby when he cheated, he’s told my friend he was tricked into having the baby and he never liked his partner enough.

I told my friend that she’s daft for going near a bloke like this and that I think he’s awful and manipulative.

Life’s been largely calm for the last 6 months, she’s trying to repair her life, her DH moved out, she’s found a new place and we see each other reasonably frequently.

I found out yesterday she’s seeing WH - he’s told her he loves her and a whole load of other shit.

I feel really disappointed in her and I don’t want anything to do with her. I’m so upset she can’t see what a shit he is and that she’d be so stupid to do this.

AIBU to withdraw from this friendship? She’s distraught about how angry I am (obviously I told her) but I’m not sure I can get past it.

Any advice? I lead a very drama-free life and that’s how I like it - my marriage is settled, I have a safe process job as does my DH - I only say this to emphasise I’m not enjoying the drama - I’m really at a loss about how to go forward.

She’s distraught about how angry I am (obviously I told her) but I’m not sure I can get past it

Hmm. You're entitled to your honest response, I suppose. But how she lives her private life is not your business. Who are you to judge? You have judged, though, and found her lacking, and shown your anger. You have a right to be angry about this, you think? Seems a bit far, to me. You might reasonably dislike what she's done, but to be angry, as if you have some authority over her... no.

There are lots of good reasons for withdrawing from relationships. Not being comfortable with someone's behaviour is enough. Cut her loose. You don't like what she does. She doesn't need Goody-Two-Shoes judging and being 'angry'.

Be careful she doesn’t try to have an affair with your DH. I wouldn’t trust this woman for a second and would keep my distance. She sees no man as being unavailable to her and she’s probably a deeply insecure person.

You don’t need to say anything, just start being less available to her. Cut phone calls sort, don’t reply to texts for a few days and don’t be around to meet up so often.

@plasticputty

You’re right - I’ve no right to be angry - I have no authority over her.

I suppose it boils down to me realising she’s not the person I thought she was and I’m angry with myself.

@TitsAndTomatoes

The friend didn’t actually act as BM on the day as she was heavily pregnant but she was supposed to. She helped organise hen do etc. She’s not a friend of mine - I met her through our mutual friend. This is entirely true. It’s so identifiable I’ve NC.

I'm friends with people who like

Do you like this person? (Taking everything into account)

If not , why be friends with her?

If yes, be friends with her

@Bluesmartiesarebest

Well, if she did he’d be just as culpable if he entered into it so I’d be blaming them both!

But yes, her trustworthiness is an issue.

It’s not about being judgey or a ‘goody two shoes’, it’s about whether you can be friends with someone whose moral compass is so skewed. I wouldn’t judge her because she is what she is, but would I want to socialise with someone like that whose values I don’t share? Nope.

@whydoesshedoitffs

I’m afraid if she’s done it once, like all cheaters / drama people then they are more likely inclined to do it again. But thank you for taking the time to explain why you didn’t drift apart initially.

Personally, she’s not going to change. She’s cheated with a man whose parter was her friend! And has a small baby - arguably the most vulnerable time. I would be unable to be her friend as soon as she made the conscious decision to sleep with him, and continuing to cause pain without any remorse. But, I don’t have any friends who I think would purposely do this - so I don’t have to make the decision. You can’t force her to think about this from another point of view but I’d be wary about someone who doesn’t care at all about a friends feelings.

Remember you’ll miss the friendship but honestly I would be cooling the communications if it was me. Just slowly, still offering some support and maybe meet up for coffeee but not offering any opinion on WH until she stops comms herself.

(Also be kind to yourself, with a small one, try meet like minded mums who you can still socialise with so you don’t loose the interaction from cutting her off)

Over time it becomes tedious, dealing with people who won't grow up and get a grip

This! I ended up distancing myself from a friendship because I just got so bored and frustrated with her asking me for advice, then completely ignoring my advice and making the same bad choices over and over again, then coming back to me for sympathy when it all inevitably blew up in her face. It started to feel like I was just the audience for her drama.

TBH if she was my friend (and I have friends who have behaved in ways I don't really approve of) I'd think, OK she really needs support right now. She is making terrible, terrible decisions, probably losing loads of friends, making her more isolated with a man who is a bellend. She's made so many enemies, and yeah, it's her fault. But God, imagine being in her shoes right now.
It's fine for you not to approve, and obviously if you can't get past this in your own mind, there's not much you can do. But I think that your friend is in need of a really good friend.

@TheShiteRunner

Yes, I think this too - this is why I’m genuinely in such a state 😔

Perhaps stop being so involved. Back off and just keep it to a coffee once a month. Try not to judge her. When she talks about DH just gloss over it and talk about something else. Hopefully they'll break up and she'll learn how to be happy alone.

IME I would distance yourself from her to save yourself a lot of stress and heartache.
I had my closest friend of 25years dump me because when she eventually met the "right one" she didn't want me in her life because I knew too much about her... broken marriage, affairs, ONS, etc, etc.

I had not been complicit in any of shenanigans but had to listen to all this stuff for years and tbh it did my head in!

She told me that she wanted to start a new life free from her past and that we could no longer be friends! So that was the end of that!

So if I were you OP I would stop being her free Counsellor and leave her to her self obsessed drama of a live!

What it comes down to for me is that she treats other people badly. She has cheated on her partners repeatedly and is now involved with the partner of a friend. Why on earth would you want to be her friend?

People who say they are not judgemental are deluding themselves. We are all judgemental about certain things. Otherwise we would be devoid of a moral compass.
This woman treats other people appallingly, lies to those closest to her, is untrustworthy, sleeps with unavailable men and seems to be addicted to drama. I would cut her out of my life and I would also tell her that I absolutely judge her for her behaviour. She needs to hear that her behaviour is disgusting and unacceptable. Continuing to provide and friendship to someone like that is almost condoning and enabling their destructive behaviour.

If you continue with this friendship OP, chances are you will be back on MN in 6 months time with a ‘DH has left me for my friend’ post. If she has done this to other friends, do you think she would think twice about setting her sights on your DH?

Thank you everyone for taking the time to contribute to this thread - there’s lots here for me to think about.

In the short term I’m going to be less available and try to stay out of it.

Given I’ve been entirely honest with her about how I feel I’m hoping she won’t involve me in any drama.

Longer term I’ll think more but I think our friendship in its current incarnation is over.

Yes agree with ShiteRunner that it's a time when she will probably need a good friend But a good friend is honest as well as supportive - you don't have to socialise with WH, and you don't have to be embroiled in her drama. Sounds like you don't do drama but wow your friend can't stay away from it. What's really going on for her that she keeps sabotaging herself? I would encourage her to get help tbh.

@Livelovebehappy

I doubt it only because I know my husband so well. And the fact I think she’s capable of it speaks volumes really.

Over the years several women have tried it on with my DH - he’s very attractive and I’m not especially so certain women over the years have thought he was an easy target. He’s always told me, never engaged, and refused to keep it a secret when asked to by them so I have to doubts about his fidelity.

I would encourage her to get help tbh.

She’s been seeing a therapist since the split, but it’s obviously not helping!!

I feel like I understand both the views expressed on this thread. And the posters who think she needs or will need a friend sound lovely. But I think everyone else is right as well!

I think that you have to go with what sits best with you,and that sounds like a withdrawal.

Given that you've already told her about what you think about WH (great name!), isn't it quite easy for you to take a bit of a step back? Presumably as he becomes more enmeshed in her life, it's simpler for you to see her less?

sorry, in the time it took me to type x-posted with people who said it better and OPs updates.

It sounds like your friend is engineering things so that you end up colluding in what she's doing. It's a form of unconscious permission-seeking for shit behaviour.

@RedHatsDoNotSuitMe

Yes, I think a withdrawal will probably be easy in a natural way.

The issue will be if she tries to push things which I think she will.

It's an 'escape valve' that stops her from taking full responsibility - and that stops her from having to commit fully to her therapeutic process.

@AFistfulofDolores1

It’s interesting you use that word - I feel the same and said to her yesterday that I won’t collude with her. I cannot. My conscience won’t allow it.

Unconscious processes interest me tremendously - and when you know about them, it's quite striking to see how they are at play so much.

I bet your friend goes away from your interactions feeling lighter - and you feel heavier. She's handed something over; which allows her to perpetuate her behaviour. You're left carrying the baggage, and that can be quite a visceral experience. By distancing yourself, you hand it back. She probably won't be best pleased.