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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think DH boss is a tw*t (and his DD)?

47 replies

AliceRR · 05/03/2019 10:34

This is a also a bit of a WWYD / rant but I am so annoyed with my DH boss (and his daughter for other reasons) and stressed and not sure what to do so would appreciate advice.

I’m off work on mat leave. My baby girl was still born at full term less than a month ago.i was already on mat leave when it happened as we found out she had died the day before my due date.

My DH is back at work as his boss is a tw*t. We both work in the same profession. I work in a national firm and they have proper HR and procedures so I’m not under pressure to go back. DH works in a smaller firm where there’s less support and he often feels his job is not secure.

After we lost our baby girl, DH boss texted him and said take all the time you need. But DH felt he wouldn’t be able to take more than 2 weeks paternity leave (on statutory pay). My DH has assumed based on boss’s text he’d be paid but I suggested probably not if he was not going to pay pat pay anyway.

Towards end of second week DH called work and spoke to office manager who often acts kind of as HR (it’s a small place) to gauge when they want him back etc and they started asking questions about some of his work. So he agreed to go in for an afternoon. Anyway it ended up that he was basically back at work after his two weeks but just doing afternoons / half days. That was last week. On his first day back he said they made it clear he’s expected back this week full time. DH isn’t ready for work and TBH I’m not ready to be home alone without him but I know that’s not reason for him to stay home. DH told his boss last week he’s struggling with work (we both thought it better he speak to his boss rather than just turn up with a sick note) and his boss told him to “man up” and said he “needs more steel”.

Today DH went to GP (about something else) and started talking about the baby, was in tears, and GP have given him a sick note for 4 weeks. DH thinks if he used it his boss will lose all respect for him so doesn’t want to. DH seems to think his boss has no respect for him anyway. Basically he thinks that will be the end of his job but he has often thought this anyway as he seems to be hanging on the whims of this guy he works for.

The difficulty is more so because we are supposed to be buying a new house in a few weeks. We have a mortgage now but it’s more manageable than the new one would be.

We both earn similar and could manage the mortgage on one salary. But I will only get full pay for 13 weeks and then half pay for 13 weeks (then statutory). At this point, we haven’t even had the funeral yet, I don’t know whether I’ll bw ready to go back within 13 weeks and we need to assume I might not. So DH worry is one of us would need to be working after 13 weeks and if he does lose his job there’s no guarantee how quickly he’d get one. Having said that I could plan to go back after 13 weeks and if I couldn’t manage then maybe I could go on sick and would get full pay.

The other thing is the house needs everything doing including bathroom, kitchen, electrics, decorating... so if we managed on one salary we’d pay the mortgage and bills but we wouldn’t be able to do much to the house and I didn’t really want to live in it as is for months and months but realise we might have to.

We’ve exchanged on the sale of our house so we can’t just stay here. There a chance our buyer would agree to wait longer if we explained the circumstances but realistically maybe only a month (they already agreed to wait as there was a problem with our purchase and I think they waited as they knew we were having a baby and we were going to have to rent). We haven’t exchanged on the purchase yet but are supposed to be signing docs on Thursday so we feel we need to make a decision.

I just don’t really know what to do for the best. I’ve just lost my baby. I don’t want to lose the house as well - I should mention we consider this our dream house (within our budget) and something of a miracle as we lost or on another house in the same area last year and we were very lucky that a house went up for sale two doors down at Christmas but I don’t think that would happen again. BUT our health etc is more important and if my husband isn’t ready to work then I don’t want him to feel he has to.

Oh as for his daughter... DH boss daughter works in the same profession and works for a firm where a few of my ex-colleagues work. I have never met her and DH has met her twice. She is very indiscreet. First she told DH when I met him I had applied for a job at her place. Not even true. Second, DH told his boss about my 12 week scan as he needed the morning off. He obviously told his DD and she told her colleagues (who know me and other people I work with) so the message got back to friends I work with before I’d had chance to to tell them. I didn’t tell them before 12 weeks as many people dont. His daughter has since told his colleagues that we lost our daughter... So DH tells his boss these personal things because he needs to and then he tells his daughter and she goes and gossips about it. I’ve never met her but it annoys me.

Anyway I’m just stressed. We need to make a decision about the house. The house isn’t the most important thing, we know that now especially after what we have already lost, but honestly I don’t want to lose the house as well.

If nothing else I think it was going to be a good thing to have a change of scenery and something else to focus on in the coming months and to keep us busy.

OP posts:
AliceRR · 05/03/2019 10:34

(Sorry the post is so long)

OP posts:
NeatFreakMama · 05/03/2019 10:43

I'm so sorry for what you've had to go through. I can't imagine how you're feeling right now. In terms of advise I'm not sure really but it sounds like losing the house would add to the stress so I'd try to move ahead. I wouldn't care about how your DH boss feels he can't sack him because he thinks he should 'man up'. Either take sick leave or go back but look for something at the same time so you have options. You need to be taking all the time you need. So sorry for the both of you x

Houseonahill · 05/03/2019 10:49

I'm sorry for your loss, what an awful time and yes your DHs boss is being a twat. Do you have some savings to support you for a little bit? I would take the house and get your DH looking for a new job asap. Do you have any close friends or family around that can help support you while your husband is at work? But you are right he shouldn't have to go back before he's ready and I don't know the legalities of it but I would think it was unfair dismissal to fire him for a 4 week sick note.

Kolo · 05/03/2019 10:56

I’m really sorry for your loss. It’s awful that you’re having to worry about all these other things while you are grieving. I don’t think I have any advice for you. Only that you could try to deal with actual real problems, and try not to be dealing with the ‘what if’ type problems. They may never materialise. I think your DH should do what the GP advises and that gives you 4 weeks ‘space’. I’d carry on with the house purchase if you feel that it’s important to you. In 13 weeks you may or may not be ready to go back to work, but you can deal with that at the time.

Again, I’m so sorry for your loss.

Shadow93 · 05/03/2019 10:58

If your husband is signed off sick then his boss CANNOT fire or dismiss him and I think its especially heartless of the company to be awkward at this time. I would get in touch with ACAS and seek council from a law employment specialist as it sounds like they're trying for constructive dismissal. What they are doing sounds like it's boardering on illegal! Hope you get it all sorted and I'm so very sorry for your loss

Tomtontom · 05/03/2019 10:58

How long has your husband worked there? Would he find a new job easily?

You've got so much going on, is there a bereavement service in your area? They might offer counselling or just somewhere to go and have a cuppa with people that understand.

Eliza9917 · 05/03/2019 10:59

I've no advice re: the house but Flowers

LessLivid · 05/03/2019 11:00

Oh god I am so so sorry for what you’ve been through. Nobody should have to go through that. Are you getting counselling or can you get some? DH should use the sick note and you can worry about the rest later. Sending love.

Tomtontom · 05/03/2019 11:00

@Shadow93 I've no doubt your post is well intentioned but it's completely incorrect. You can be dismissed whilst signed off from work, and to do so would not be constructive dismissal. Their behaviour is heartless but it's definitely not illegal.

Stinkytoe · 05/03/2019 11:01

TBH I’m not ready to be home alone without him but I know that’s not reason for him to stay home.

Actually I think it is, you two need to be with each other to process this and grieve for your beautiful baby.

Your DH’s GP has deemed him not fit for work and I think you should follow that advice. He should take these 4 weeks and then find himself a new job ASAP.

I’m so, so sorry for the loss of your precious daughter Flowers

Nomorepies · 05/03/2019 11:03

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request.

Bananasarenottheonlyfruit · 05/03/2019 11:07

I am so sorry for your loss. That on its own is more than enough to deal with, without other people making it harder. They cannot fire him for a 4 week sick note, same as they wouldn't be able to fire him for a broken leg or other injury that physically made him unable to work. He should take that time, at least, more if needed, to support you and his own wellbeing. And start looking for another job as soon as possible.

Don't let the house go, as you would potentially be legally liable for the associated costs as you have exchanged. Solicitors aren't known for being kind and, the vendor might be a twat too.

Flowers
Hotterthanahotthing · 05/03/2019 11:08

Carry on and get your dream house.
There rest will settle with time.
You both need time to grieve.I think your OH needs to take the four weeks to support you and start looking for a new job.

downcasteyes · 05/03/2019 11:09

My last boss was a similar kind of twat, with a similar set of dinosaur attitudes. He did, however, have respect for the law, which is on your DH's side here. He needs time off work - he's been to the GP and got signed off - there is very little that the company can do to gainsay this very reasonable course of action.

The key is for your DH to dissociate from this embodiment of toxic masculinity. It doesn't matter if twatmctwatface boss has respect for him or not, at the end of the day - because his respect ain't worth the having. I very much doubt someone like him will step outside the law and try to fire him for this, which really is the primary thing.

Exchange on the house and when he is ready, start looking for a new job. Flowers for you both.

Litluts · 05/03/2019 11:14

Your DH needs to go back to work. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

Loopytiles · 05/03/2019 11:14

Very sorry about your DD.

Unfortunately employment law provides little protection for fathers in this situation.

They may well be able to legally fire your DH for taking (legitimate) sick leave, unfortunately. If they did this without following their sick absence procedures and he has more than two years service he may have an unfair dismissal case, but employment tribunals can be costly and stressful.

Wonder if Sands or ACAS might be of help?

Loopytiles · 05/03/2019 11:17

Sounds like DH’s boss has breached data protection rules, but there is not much recourse on that either Sad

Sonders · 05/03/2019 11:19

I am so sorry for your loss. I am not in a position to offer legal advice and do think it's dangerous to get this information from Mumsnet.

The GP though has made the expert decision that your husband is not well enough to work - they don't get bonuses based on sick notes and would have no other motivation. Your husband's boss doesn't get to override this, and doesn't deserve to have any say in your family life, ever.

Redissuereader · 05/03/2019 11:20

Hi Alice

I'm sorry for your loss, I have been through it and know how very raw the pain is right now Flowers

I think that it does take time and I had the full year off as we had several family bereavements in close succession. Looking back I think it might have been easier to go back to work sooner as when it came time to return I couldn't at all. I didn't really like my boss and losing my daughter made me not suffer fools AT ALL. I was very angry for a very long time. I think if you have an understanding workplace and you get on with your colleagues then it might help in your recovery to be around people that care.

By the sounds of it, your husband might be best placed to take a bit more time off while you help each other heal and where his boss isn't feeding the information back to his daughter.

Separately the information that is being passed to his daughter is a massive breach of privacy and I would consider reporting him to the Data Protection Agency whilst your husband is on his sick leave.

Check your house insurance for legal protection cover, this generally covers employment issues. If your husband is sacked whilst off sick and boss is being investigated then he will be able to pursue an employment claim.

Again sending you massive sympathies, I think when going through something like this - employment issues are often encountered as companies just don't know what to do in the circumstances - which is no excuse for acting like twats - but seems to be what happens.

I hope you find some comfort in each other, my husband being around for each other really helped our recovery.

My old boss has actually helped me a lot by reminding me that the employment issues I have had following our loss is (in stress terms) is nothing compared to what we have been through. He advised me to think about it when dealing with the employment problems, but not let it take over our lives, care for each other and try to heal the rest of the time. So spend an hour a day where you talk and discuss or work through the work stuff - then shelve it and get on with surviving the rest of the day. Easier said than done but it helped to try.

Mitzimaybe · 05/03/2019 11:23

Sorry for your loss.

The boss telling his daughter and the daughter telling her colleagues is a huge breach of GDPR and should be reported. Health is a special category of personal data which has to be protected even more than other types.

I really can't advise re. the house.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 05/03/2019 11:28

Hi OP

I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't believe how horrible his boss is being at the worst time of your lives. As if you tell someone to man up over the death of a child.

I was just wondering whether your circumstances would fall under compassionate leave? I'm not sure if there is some law around it or if it would depend on the exact wording of his company's leave policy. But it is worth checking out. It is better for him to have compassionate leave on his record than sick leave I'd have thought (and may make a difference to pay?)

He cannot be put under pressure to return to work when he is on sick leave. It's illegal (I realise this doesn't stop it happening).

Most companies would just give the time off paid recognising it's a one off event and the bad press they would receive if it got out would be very damaging to them.

If I was him I'd look for another job when he feels up to it.

Also under employers liability legislation they have a responsibility to protect their employees from death physical injury and mental anguish. I'd say it's pretty clear cut if you are pushing someone to go back to work when they have just suffered a terrible bereavement plus been signed off sick by a doctor, that this is unreasonable (both morally and in the eyes of the law) and is likely to lead to mental anguish (ie stress) therefore you would have a valid claim for compensation if he did leave work or was forced out. I realise this in itself is stressful but a good no win no fee solicitor would help and it might be wise to speak to one sooner rather than later if you're up to it.

Please make sure you keep copies of everything - doctors notes, work response, get them to email and follow any phone conversations up in writing. Just in case

I'm not sure what you can do about the gossiping as it may be hard to prove and is unrelated to the above.

I'm so sorry they are making this time worse for you. I hope you still take the time to concentrate on your baby and get any help you need.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 05/03/2019 11:31

By the way claiming for stress isn't the same as claiming for unfair / constructive dismissal - it's different legislation. For example you can put in a stress claim if you still work there (similar to a claim if you'd been injured through employer negligence at work)

Deedee248 · 05/03/2019 11:32

Flowers So sorry to hear your sad news. Your husband’s boss is unbelievable, particularly in being so indiscreet with private information.
I think it would be good if you go ahead with your house purchase if you can. Perhaps you could concentrate on getting one or two rooms at least nicely decorated and live in those rooms as much as possible and then once funds are available you could look at more expensive renovations eg, replacing bathroom or kitchen. If this is your dream house, there’s really no hurry on getting everything done at once. There may be other areas where you can save money for a few months, eg cancelling gym membership, cheaper broadband/satellite/mobile contracts, not eating out so often etc. Then once your husband has a better job with a decent boss, you can start to do stuff to the house.

JaniceBattersby · 05/03/2019 11:35

Oh OP I’m so sorry for you and your husband.

He needs to take the four weeks. It’s got to be non-negotiable. Otherwise he could end up in serious emotional difficulty that will take a lot longer than four weeks to deal with.

Go ahead with the house. It will give you something positive to focus on, even if it’s just a footnote at the moment with all that you’re going to.

Your husband can look for another job over the next six months or so but he shouldn’t be bullied out.

Lots of love to you OP. My best friend suddenly lost her daughter when she was five weeks old 18 months ago. She’s in a much better place now although she never believed she would be.

Mummyoflittledragon · 05/03/2019 11:36

I am really sorry for your loss. I also would consider reporting his boss for breach to GDPR. Your colleagues found out about your pregnancy before you had informed your employer. That’s disgusting.

I think your dh absolutely should take the 4 weeks. It is my understanding that his employers insurance will be invalidated should he work during the time he is signed of sick. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of employment law can confirm this.

As for the house purchase, I would say proceed. This is your dream home and life is going to be very different from what you expected. But this is one thing you could give yourselves. Perhaps the house isn’t in great shape but you will work this out in time. Flowers

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