to think DH boss is a tw*t (and his DD)?

[AliceRR]

This is a also a bit of a WWYD / rant but I am so annoyed with my DH boss (and his daughter for other reasons) and stressed and not sure what to do so would appreciate advice.

I’m off work on mat leave. My baby girl was still born at full term less than a month ago.i was already on mat leave when it happened as we found out she had died the day before my due date.

My DH is back at work as his boss is a tw*t. We both work in the same profession. I work in a national firm and they have proper HR and procedures so I’m not under pressure to go back. DH works in a smaller firm where there’s less support and he often feels his job is not secure.

After we lost our baby girl, DH boss texted him and said take all the time you need. But DH felt he wouldn’t be able to take more than 2 weeks paternity leave (on statutory pay). My DH has assumed based on boss’s text he’d be paid but I suggested probably not if he was not going to pay pat pay anyway.

Towards end of second week DH called work and spoke to office manager who often acts kind of as HR (it’s a small place) to gauge when they want him back etc and they started asking questions about some of his work. So he agreed to go in for an afternoon. Anyway it ended up that he was basically back at work after his two weeks but just doing afternoons / half days. That was last week. On his first day back he said they made it clear he’s expected back this week full time. DH isn’t ready for work and TBH I’m not ready to be home alone without him but I know that’s not reason for him to stay home. DH told his boss last week he’s struggling with work (we both thought it better he speak to his boss rather than just turn up with a sick note) and his boss told him to “man up” and said he “needs more steel”.

Today DH went to GP (about something else) and started talking about the baby, was in tears, and GP have given him a sick note for 4 weeks. DH thinks if he used it his boss will lose all respect for him so doesn’t want to. DH seems to think his boss has no respect for him anyway. Basically he thinks that will be the end of his job but he has often thought this anyway as he seems to be hanging on the whims of this guy he works for.

The difficulty is more so because we are supposed to be buying a new house in a few weeks. We have a mortgage now but it’s more manageable than the new one would be.

We both earn similar and could manage the mortgage on one salary. But I will only get full pay for 13 weeks and then half pay for 13 weeks (then statutory). At this point, we haven’t even had the funeral yet, I don’t know whether I’ll bw ready to go back within 13 weeks and we need to assume I might not. So DH worry is one of us would need to be working after 13 weeks and if he does lose his job there’s no guarantee how quickly he’d get one. Having said that I could plan to go back after 13 weeks and if I couldn’t manage then maybe I could go on sick and would get full pay.

The other thing is the house needs everything doing including bathroom, kitchen, electrics, decorating... so if we managed on one salary we’d pay the mortgage and bills but we wouldn’t be able to do much to the house and I didn’t really want to live in it as is for months and months but realise we might have to.

We’ve exchanged on the sale of our house so we can’t just stay here. There a chance our buyer would agree to wait longer if we explained the circumstances but realistically maybe only a month (they already agreed to wait as there was a problem with our purchase and I think they waited as they knew we were having a baby and we were going to have to rent). We haven’t exchanged on the purchase yet but are supposed to be signing docs on Thursday so we feel we need to make a decision.

I just don’t really know what to do for the best. I’ve just lost my baby. I don’t want to lose the house as well - I should mention we consider this our dream house (within our budget) and something of a miracle as we lost or on another house in the same area last year and we were very lucky that a house went up for sale two doors down at Christmas but I don’t think that would happen again. BUT our health etc is more important and if my husband isn’t ready to work then I don’t want him to feel he has to.

Oh as for his daughter... DH boss daughter works in the same profession and works for a firm where a few of my ex-colleagues work. I have never met her and DH has met her twice. She is very indiscreet. First she told DH when I met him I had applied for a job at her place. Not even true. Second, DH told his boss about my 12 week scan as he needed the morning off. He obviously told his DD and she told her colleagues (who know me and other people I work with) so the message got back to friends I work with before I’d had chance to to tell them. I didn’t tell them before 12 weeks as many people dont. His daughter has since told his colleagues that we lost our daughter... So DH tells his boss these personal things because he needs to and then he tells his daughter and she goes and gossips about it. I’ve never met her but it annoys me.

Anyway I’m just stressed. We need to make a decision about the house. The house isn’t the most important thing, we know that now especially after what we have already lost, but honestly I don’t want to lose the house as well.

If nothing else I think it was going to be a good thing to have a change of scenery and something else to focus on in the coming months and to keep us busy.

@AmIRightOrAMeringue There's no legal provision for compassionate leave. There would also be no claim for personal injury (this is what a claim for stress would come under) on the information given.

OP if you need advice on your husband's rights at work then you'd be best to post on the employment board, as there's lots of well meaning but completely incorrect information being posted here. If you do that then post how long he has been employed there, as this is key to his rights.

Thanks everyone for the replies

We have saved about the equivalent of three months’ pay for one of us so not that much. We got married in 2016 and paid for the wedding and since then we have done this house up completely, plus we have been overpaying the mortgage, so we haven’t had much money to save. Overpaying the mortgage means we have slightly more equity than we would have and therefore a bit more of a deposit, but not loads

In terms of the legalities of what his boss is doing I don’t think there’s much we could do or much that would be worth doing. We are both lawyers but not employment lawyers. Yes his boss and his daughters are lawyers too!! DH has worked there less than two years and so has limited recourse against his boss. Plus in these situations it often seems like if the relationship has broken down then you can’t do much about that and bribing a claim just seems like more hassle and stress we don’t need.

But I’m not an expert on that.

It’s hard to know what to do about the house. I don’t want to be under more stress because of financial pressure but I think we would manage

The other thing is I don’t think he would get paid other than SSP while off anyway

Move house
DH take the 4 weeks
You both grieve for your daughter
Love each other
Deal with the fall-out as need be.

So sorry for your loss, there are no words I can offer.

I'm so very sorry for your loss Alice. It sounds an awful situation all round.

In terms of next steps, when you're ready to think about them - it is more straightforward to pick up temporary work as lawyers than in many other jobs and those temping jobs are more likely to pay a reasonable amount.

I'd suggest that you DH takes the four weeks off immediately and uses some of it to register with some of the temping agencies and see what else there is out there at short notice. He may be able to find something part time or flexible enough that you can have more time together and proceed with the house purchase.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I think your husband should take the 4 weeks off sick and you should complete on the move to your dream home.

You will not get over your loss in 13 weeks or 26 weeks. However, I feel it may do you good to return to work before that time (I don't mean immediately after the funeral) but perhaps after 4 weeks like your husband. Most people who lose loved ones have to return to work after a much shorter time.

Grief can take a long time to come to terms with but getting back into the daily routine can be helpful. You will need to focus on work and doing things in your new home which could help you to not continually ruminate over your loss which you probably would do at home.

In terms of your DH's boss disclosing private information to his DD, your DH will have to tell him that it is illegal and that he will be reported for contravening the GDPR 2016 if he persists.

First of all, I'm so sorry for the loss of your daughter. You both deserve time to grieve properly.

It sounds like your husband needs those 4 weeks off work and so do you. It also sounds as though his workplace is toxic and totally unsupportive so he can use that time to begin to look for a different job.

I would move forward with your dream house, especially if you could manage on one salary. If your husband resigned from work he could work on the house and you would have more time together even when you went back to work. It may actually be good to work on a project and use the time to create your dream home. It would be a perfectly valid reason to fill a gap on a CV between jobs and give him some breathing space.

So sorry for you loss OP .

How heartbreaking for you both, you both need time to grieve.

Bereavement and moving home are very stressful times without the added stress of your husbands job. In such circumstances, it’s not unreasonable to expect your DH to return to work until after the funeral. But only if you and your DH’s feels ready to do so.

Of course your DH should expect to speak to his boss in confidence. What does his contract of employment say about pay? Perhaps a change of employer could be considered in future for your DH.

If you have already exchanged on the property then you will need to complete, as you will lose a lot of money. Perhaps a project may help you both heal in time.

Sending you a big hug, OP.

We have exchanged on the sale but not the purchase (which makes things more difficult in a sense because we could live quite cheaply here in a house we’ve done up completely in the last two years and not worry about renting or finding another house)

The funeral is next Wednesday (13th) not sure if I said

I agree I might be ready to go back to work sooner. I like my job and I have supportive colleagues and being home alone with nothing to do is not ideal

I think the best thing to do is DH take the time off he needs (he is more important to me than the house) and buy the house and then be cautious about doing it up as some do you have said

DH plans to get a new job when he can. He hasn’t been happy there for a while and after his boss told him to “man up” last week when he told him how difficult he was finding being at work, he really didn’t want to work for him any more.

So in theory he would take his time off, look for a new job when he can, and in theory he should be in a better position in a few months

He spoke to a recruitment agent actually last week after the conversation with his boss and there didn’t seem to be any jobs doing what he does, which I think the agent said was the Brexit effect

He’s not sure what his contract says about pay. He’ll have to check. But he was only to get statutory paternity pay so I’d expect same for sickness

A quick google suggests SSP is £92 per week which is not ideal but it’s something and I will get full pay until end of April

So sorry for your trouble. How often do we wish men would be in touch with their feelings, youp dh boss is an idiot. Dp should have paternity leave to look after you, compassionate leave for himself and sick leave on top if needed. Do speak to acas. If he can be released because of redundancy or sickness he will get benefits if he has the ni contributions.
If you can still go ahead with the house do. Although this loss will always be with you, in time things will be more manageable and your husband can look for other work. Take your time and look after each other. Ignatia is a good homeopathic remedy for coping with grief if you believe in that sort of thing. There is much information and support and counselling if you need it later. Be kind to yourself.

Could your husband take the four week sick and look for a new job during that time? You have both been through something dreadful and I can't even begin to imagine how you are both feeling. Focus on your new home and perhaps for your husband a new job may help. I know that when difficult/ hard/ horrible things happen it helps me to feel in control elsewhere.

No practical advice AliceRR, just enormous sympathy for you both Sounds as if whatever you decide, it will be better in the long run if your husband can find a new job. Boss’s daughter sounds very unprofessional too. I can’t remember how much time off work my friends had when they lost their baby but they both said how important it was to focus on each other. I wonder if a new house could help as it won’t have the same associations as the one you are in but, as others say, house moves can be stressful, especially on top of the pain of bereavement.

I'm very sorry for your loss. I remember your username from posts before you had your daughter, it's so impossibly hard to lose a child. Are you in touch with Sands charity? They might help you both work through ways to process what's happened.

Move house, as long as it's safe you can settle in, doing it up can come much later. DH might need to think about a side-step into other roles, it could be refreshing. His boss sounds like a knob, I would take the sick leave, get it extended further while searching for a new job and simply not stay if I were him.

Oh Alice. How bloody ghastly. I'm so sorry for your loss and the extra worries it's caused you.

Firstly I'd really suggest you just disregard all the well meaning but mainly incorrect advice around employment law and GDPR. I think you know it isn't helpful.

Your husband definitely needs to take some time off. Maybe not the whole four weeks but if that's what he needs support him to take it.

Secondly I would recommend that your husband asks for a meeting with his boss and maybe someone more sympathetic- maybe an HR rep or a senior partner asap- possibly off site. Men are often not great at communicating and admitting grief and loss to other men- especially bosses. In my experience even the most hard nosed boss does possess empathy and might get a greater understanding of why he needs time away.

Financially I promise you will cope and maybe this could open the door to him finding a better job.

Finally just help each other through this and know you are both loved xx

I had 6 months off when my baby was still born,it probably was too long.In the end I was really off because I was scared to go back,rather than because of what had happened,and I actually felt better when I went back MY DH had a few days off ,he is in a very high pressure macho environment,and while I don't think they would have fired him it would have been really frowned upon.
Is your mortgage through,as it might be affected if your husband if off sick
I think it is unlikely his boss would fire him against this background,( although not impossible) TBH if they did than the chances are they would in any case sooner or later
If the mortgage is ok I would buy the house,DH takes 4 weeks off ,he goes back after that if he feels strong enough,and you are kind to yourselves Thinking of you both

so sorry for your loss

and my sympathies to your dh and his work situation. I'm also a lawyer and I think legal firms are the worse culprits. especially to qualified staff as they know realistically there's little that they can or will do (for fear of a bad rep).I've had a few issues with previous employers and I'm currently chasing my employer for holiday pay accurred while on mat leave and they're stalling. I feel they're trying to avoid paying

There isn’t really anyone in HR. Well there is the office manager who is also personnel / HR and DH said she told him he should go on sick

But the decision to let DH go is the boss’s. There are no othe partners or anything as it’s a small firm. There is no one more senior to DH than his boss, its otherwise a trainee and some paralegals.

DH just called me and said he isn’t going to do anything about the sick note today. He doesn’t feel he can take the time off. I’m frustrated with him slightly but more so I just feel sorry that he’s going through this on top of everything else. He worries about job security anyway and thought his boss might make him redundant in April after a big case is done with so I don’t see why he should work when he’s not well enough to just on the off chance it might help.

He’s worried about me and the finances. He’s worried I’ll have to go back to work sooner if he is let go and can’t find another job, but I don’t think that’s an issue as I may well be ready to go back to work within 13 weeks and think I’m supposed to give 8 weeks notice to return after mat leave so may do that and then if it were too much my time off would be sick and I’d get paid but I imagine that might not even be necessary.

I just feel bad that’s hes under so much stress and I’m annoyed with his employer for putting him (both of us) through more than he should need to deal with right now

Pretty certain sacking him due to sickness relating to the still birth of a baby would fall under maternity discrimination (worth chatting to ACAS really!)

DH should take sick leave.

I appreciate you and your DH will be in a difficult place, but from the point of view of your DH employer, it's hard to know what they should do, or what you think they should do.

I would think carefully about committing yourselves to a house move, if your husband is in a difficult work position. You might be better renting temporarily

I think your DH needs to try to come to terms with everything over the next few weeks, and get back to work as soon as he can. It wouldn't hurt to keep in contact with work while he is off sick. It sounds like he is in a managerial position, and I am sure it wouldn't hurt to do so.

By the same token, after 3 months, and especially after 6, you may well be ready to go back to work yourself.

Time is the only healer really.

I am so sorry for your loss

It's probably a good idea to go ahead with the house purchase. If your financial/employment status circumstances change, you may find it hard to get a mortgage for a short time (even if you can manage repayments).

Sympathies to you and your husband for your loss

Thank you

Yes I think I may well be ready to go back within 3 months. DH is just worried what if I’m not and if I feel under pressure to go back

I’ll see what he says when he gets home

I’m conscious I don’t want to put my own agenda on him either ie by thinking he’s not ready to work because I’m not or even wanting him home so he’s with me. I don’t think he is ready but I will see what he wants to do and support him through that as best I can