AIBU to ask if bicycle towing a child carrier looks unbelievably unsafe?

[longwayoff]

I don't spend much time in traffic but noticed one of these the other day which made me feel a bit concerned. Today, the Mail has video of someone crossing 3 lanes of traffic with one attached. They look dangerous on so many levels. How can they be legal?

On roads, I worry most about the dangers from exhaust fumes. Yes, fumes are all around us, obviously, but my specific concern is seeing these things in stationary traffic with fumes pumping out of the vehicle in front directly at the little pod which usually only has gauze in the windows.
In parks and free flowing cycle lanes they look fairly safe: more so than little seats on the back of bikes.

I think they are ok on specific pathways for example a trail, near us there is a trail for cyclists, pedestrians and walkers or joggers. It passes through a couple of towns and villages and about 16-20 miles long. But i don't think there are suitable for road use.

BreadFingers tipping a cargo trike involved a pot hole on one occasion and a kerb on another - similar to leafinthewind's experience.

If the children are strapped in properly with helmets on then they're fine. I wouldn't use it in central London.. but in a regular town they're okay. They're pretty fun to use in the snow with the ski attachment on!

I'm sure the helmets make the world of difference in a collision with a few tons of fast moving metal...

ivykaty44, most Dutch parents don’t use trailers. The cargo bike with a forward facing container is much more common, even more common (some would say ubiquitous) are the bike seats for toddlers.

I use one for short journeys to and from school. I have almost been hit several times on the tiny stretch of road that we do have to go on. Gave up and use an alternative route and jump off and walk for some of it.

Proper trails, no problem - they are a godsend.

The problem with cargo bikes, trailers, e bikes etc is that people don’t appreciate the different skill set and awareness needed.

I used to use a trailer - a cheapie Halfords one at that, loaned to me - for my kids. I attached a tall flag and cycled carefully and observantly.

I also used to cycle occasionally with and just my bike...one on a top tube seat (in front of me - much maligned safety wise I'm sure), one on a seat on the pannier rack and one in the trailer or any variation there of...perhaps two in trailer, one on one of the seats.

I cycle a lot, I don't live in an area with fab cycle lanes. It was mainly for short journeys around the city, I took care in traffic. I took a risk. I was skint it was cheaper than petrol, the hills were a bugger.

I will tell you what I find terrible. A parent who lives on my street cycles down a BUSY main road with her baby on her back in an ergo sling! It's so so unsafe.

On roads, I worry most about the dangers from exhaust fumes. Yes, fumes are all around us, obviously, but my specific concern is seeing these things in stationary traffic with fumes pumping out of the vehicle in front directly at the little pod which usually only has gauze in the windows.

People keeping saying this and other people keep pointing out why it isn't really true (higher levels of emissions within cars, same problem for buggies on the pavement, etc). I think the problem here is we have a lot of collective denial about air pollution, and think it's something that you see hanging around like smoke, and therefore you can keep your children safe from it if you don't plonk them in the middle of the road. Unfortunately, that really isn't how it works.

I just think sometimes why not take the extra time and walk.

Pavements are protected for a reason.

Good God. There's no chance I'd use of them and certainly not a bloody motor. Imagine your a little child. How scary would it be to so low down and be surrouned by huge vehicles. Supposing the child somehow escapes or the thing becomes detached.
I will admit not always a bad thing but I am known to go way OTT with safety sometimes. However I'm 1000% with myself on this one.
To second a pp . I can't believe someone would tKe such risks with their child's safety and life.

one thing as a car driver you soon realise is how bad some driving is on the road.

Cyclists on the road realise that too, believe me. I think it causes difficulties when drivers don’t realise what cycling defensively as a reaction to this looks like and interpret it as rudeness/cluelessness instead. Like cycling down the middle of a lane rather than right over by the gutter.

Would love one of those Dutch backfiets for hauling children around but the roads where I live just aren’t safe enough. The only cycle lanes we have are the ‘magic paint’ kind that are always half-full of parked cars anyway. Proper segregated infrastructure on the busier roads would be brilliant.

Fuck me. No wonder our planet is dying .

The sooner strict liability is brought in the better.

What are the actual statistics around this as opposed to people's feelings about cycling with children?

Because on the one hand, I can see that it is more risky than shipping kids around in cars but when you set that against pollution within cars (which, if I remember correctly is far greater than what we instinctively feel must be worse - head height to the exhaust) and also against the risky fallout of being raised by largely car driving sedentary parents, then I think it may prove a false risk economy.

I just think sometimes why not take the extra time and walk.

That's only practical if it would be a very short cycle ride, though - to use the example of our journey to the childminder, it's a 10 minute drive, a 15 minute cycle or a 50 minute walk. Which is why we had to pick car when we couldn't find a good cycling solution - walking it instead would add hours onto our (and DS's) daily time out of the house

I just think sometimes why not take the extra time and walk.

I think this about drivers all the time. Especially at school pickup.

@gonegnome has it exactly right.

Saying these are unsafe is like saying women shouldn't walk down the street on their own at night because it might be "unsafe". They are perfectly safe if car drivers choose to drive in a way that is safe

Unfortunately driving standards on our roads are so poor, cycling full stop had become unsafe. I would love to cycle with my toddlers in a trailer but I don't trust drivers to be observant or even observe speed limits. Consequently, I drive, adding to pollution levels and congestion.

What are the actual statistics around this

www.cyclinguk.org/statistics

Newaccount fair points but as it’s proven to be cleaner just by walking along a side street parallel to an highly polluted main road, surely it can’t be good for little lungs to be stuck right behind an exhaust pipe belching out diesel fumes (especially the black crap old buses still put out).
I wasn’t comparing to air quality inside cars, which is again a good but separate point: on a short journey I always preferred to walk away from main roads, anyway.

Our driving standards are actually amongst the best in the world.
www.driversdomainuk.com/the-worlds-worst-drivers-by-country/

More statistics here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/744077/reported-road-casualties-annual-report-2017.pdf (triggers download)

Especially with bigger/higher cars now, if wouldn't be impossible to not see one of this carts on the back of a bike and i can't bear to think about what could happen.

Even in a normal height car, the trailer is often below the level of the door mirrors. I nearly took out the trailer of one of these years ago (it was the first time I'd ever seen one).

I was in a queue of traffic, waiting to turn left (and indicating), and could see a cyclist coming up on the inside. I crept forward slightly, and after the cyclist had passed started to turn. Thankfully, I was going incredibly slowly and spotted the trailer out of the corner of my eye just as I made the left turn, and I must have missed clipping the trailer by a matter of inches. It was completely invisible in my door mirror, and because the cyclist had been on the inside of me, it wasn't visible in my rear view mirror, either.

It still makes me feel sick when I think about it now.

I also wonder how healthy it is to have small children, whose lungs are still developing, at exhaust pipe level in heavy traffic. They must be breathing in a huge amount of CO.

Well those statistics suggest that it has never been safer to travel by bike, I wasn't expecting that.

Also, it show that men make three times more journeys and travel four times as much by bike than women. I wonder if that has something to do with the increased likelihood that women are more likely to travel with children - I think the answer has to be better biking infrastructure rather than playing some kind of cycling top trumps between cargo bikes/ bike seats/ trailer and barge bikes.

The fact is even if every car on the road were planet saving electric engines (as they should be) the immediate dangers to a child in traffic sans crumple zone are the same.

It's like not wandering around on train tracks or through fields of cows if you can help it.

This isn't about environmentalist approach it is about common sense. I feel the same when I see whole families piled on to motorbikes in Mumbai.

We walk when possible but often have a wheelchair user too so vehicle use is necessary and always will be for society. There should be every effort made to do the best we can, electric engines should have been normalised decades ago but wishing for vehicle absence is not a solution.

There should be better bike infrastructure here but also a test and license system with imposable penalties for every road user and that includes cyclists.