AIBU to ask if bicycle towing a child carrier looks unbelievably unsafe?

[longwayoff]

I don't spend much time in traffic but noticed one of these the other day which made me feel a bit concerned. Today, the Mail has video of someone crossing 3 lanes of traffic with one attached. They look dangerous on so many levels. How can they be legal?

@breadfingers so much better. I suppose many British roads present difficulties in that they are not ‘European’ in that they are often very narrow and then of course the dispersal of population in British towns is very different to most stereotypically European cities in that its very suburban so you would need a lot of cycle routes to make it workable. This also makes traffic heavier (st least in comparison to what I saw in Amsterdam for example) so you have to strike a balance between extra road lanes to ease congestion, tram tracks, pedestrian footpaths and, cycle highways. The popularity of rural living is also problematic as is the lack of good public transport (otherwise people could cycle to a station/bus park and take public transport).

It's not so much that the cars are dangerous or the drivers careless (although some people think they are always at fault when can-do-no-wrong cyclists are involved) but that perhaps the road is not a safe environment for something as vulnerable as a trailer. The example right near the start of the thread what's where one had clipped the kerb and tipped over into traffic. Although that was no doubt also the fault of the Evil Driver.

There is literally no point trying to ever suggest that a cyclist is in the wrong onMN.

I protect these when I see them on the road because I am absolutely astonished at the naivety of people willingly taking little children directly into traffic with out a crumple zone. These vehicles are large cumbersome and have zero chance of being able to take evasive action in an adverse event.

I wouldn't push a buggy along the road through traffic for the same reason.

I live in a town where there are a lot of drivers and a lot of cyclists. There are good and bad of both. It is a cold hard fact though that every single driver has had to pass a test of road knowledge and practise. Not one cyclist is required to demonstrate any road sense before they put their kids in this situation, that is wrong.

@ivykaty but even if you are driving safely they aren’t always visible (for instance in a lorry). They just aren’t. And of course there people who use them like idiots acting on the presumption that drivers are responsible for driving carefully alone. The only way to make them safe is to provide appropriate infrastructure and lisencing users.

Wow! That cyclist on the M62 is totally crazy/irresponsible. I don’t unsterstand the relevance though to the title question? This cyclist is blatantly behaving illegally...the trailer (which may/may not contain a child) is irrelevant to that. What has this got to do with parents cycling children to school etc on roads on which cycling is legal and drivers are to be expecting other road users and giving them space accordingly?

@BreadFingers, wow that looks amazing. Thing is in the uk most cycle lanes are tiny little strips with no seperation from the road at all, and right in the gutter. Or on pavements with pedestrians on them and no infrastructure to seperate and protect both parties.

Cycle super highways in london are great but again they abruptly stop for bus stops, car parking spaces etc forcing you back in the road in many places. Also on quite a few there's no infrastructure for cyclists to get a right turn advantage, meaning cyclists have to cycle in the road if they want to turn right.

What the uk needs is proper cycle lanes, barriers between the road and them, lanes for each direction, traffic lights for them as well that give them priority over the road and for them to continue and not stop and start every couple of 100 metres. I would happily cycle to work which is only a 10 minute ride away if i wasn't forced to ride in the gutter while utter pricks pass me leaving about 2cm of space

They should be banned on roads. Fine for hire on cycle tracks, but that's it.

@GregoryPeckingDuck Yes we are very lucky. The big roads here are very wide and smaller roads have biking rights of way, so it makes the entire city easily accessible on bike.

On the smaller roads that are in the bike lanes map, the car drivers are aware and respectful that they are part of the city biking routes so there's never an issue. I can't quite imagine that kind of harmony between bikes and cars in the UK.

I haven't been in the UK for quite a few years now but the roads are very cramped and full of potholes from what I remember.

Another cycling bug bear, on a straight road ifi cycle in the cycle lane, I've to stop and give way to cars on the road 6 times. So i stop, have to wait for a gap in 40mph traffic, join the road, and then join back into the cycle lane. 6 times in high speed traffic.

Or i could cycle just outside the lane and not have to stop once and perform a dangerous manoeuvre into traffic. I was once asked by a council worker why i didn't use the cycle lane and quite clearly told him, would you force pedestrians on a pavement for no reason at all to walk into the road, going 40mph 6 times and squeeze through?

List of random incidents I have witnessed personally as a road user;

Pedestrian stepping/falling off kerb into traffic causing evasive action.

Missed red lights.

Missed pedestrian crossing lights.

Out of control wildlife on road - deer/rabbits/dogs/sheep/horse/cat

Brake fail on wet road

Brake fail on hill.

Tyre blowout on downhill corner.

Rockfall from hill above onto road below.

Cyclist wedged between two buses.

Parked car door opening into traffic.

Road debris.

Roundabout exit confusion.

Lane skipping/junction confusion.

HGV/Bus not being given double lane turn space.

Brake/accelerator confusion rear shunt.

Snow/ice/wind/low sun effects.

Emergency vehicles not being noticed.

Stones/snowballs thrown.

Traffic on wrong side of road/junction/1 way system.

Load spillage.

Can't see how one of these cargo bikes could deal effectively or safely with the risks of the road. They are designed for bike lanes surely?

We spent a lot of time looking at safe ways to cycle with DD, and discounted these as the trailer is harder to spot on, say, a multil-ane roundabout (and I've seen them ridden on just such a roundabout near us).

We ended up with something similar to a trikidoo - a trike with the kids at height - drivers can see the child (not just a flag) which makes them much more likely to pass carefully; I felt much safer than on a normal bike. However trikes aren't stable at speed - I got onto two wheels more than once, though never went over. Friends with a typical cargo trike (kids at the front) have tipped it more than once on poor road surfaces.

@WiggleXX Well as we live in a city with good bike lanes, and the routes that go on roads are perfectly safe, it's fine.
I'm not sure they would on UK roads. The roads are different and a lot of car drivers have different attitudes.
So no, they aren't just designed for bike lanes, but I do see how in the UK it may be difficult.

@breadfingers yes that’s exactly what it’s like. Horrible roads. Even in low traffic it can be hazardous on bike because of the poor condition of the roads. A lot of them acvery bendy as well which makes it dangerous on bike. My town is very old with narrow windy roads. I walk rather than bike as a result. The government has also prioritised pedestrian access over cycles so a lot of the main streets that I use as a route to the train station ban cycling. That’s partially because a lot of cyclists are selfish and aggressive just like our motorists. Ultimately the British need to chill out a bit before mixed use roadways can be workable.

@burbleburble I've tried getting my Babboe on 2 wheels. With no DC in and I can't, with the extra weight of them in it, it is just impossible.

I looked at trikidoo type bikes when I was buying, they look ace.

@GregoryPeckingDuck I think I would rather walk too tbh! We are very lucky here in that road users (cars/bike/scooters/skateboards) all seem to have a respectful harmony with each other. Without that the system would be difficult, and unsafe.

BreadFingers I've tipped my three-wheeled bakfiets/box bike/cargo bike over (and spilled my children out onto the pavement) Here in NL, many side roads have a step up into them from the main road as a traffic calming measure. If you try to turn off a main road into a side road at speed, you can tip up. I've been very, very close to tipping when taking corners at speed too, so I don't do that any more!

The kids were strapped in, by the way, but their harnesses came undone and they ended up sitting in a heap in the rain cover. It took them weeks to forgive me.

We ended up with something similar to a trikidoo - a trike with the kids at height - drivers can see the child (not just a flag) which makes them much more likely to pass carefully; I felt much safer than on a normal bike. However trikes aren't stable at speed - I got onto two wheels more than once, though never went over. Friends with a typical cargo trike (kids at the front) have tipped it more than once on poor road surfaces.

This is interesting to hear. We did quite a lot of research and just couldn't find a way of putting a baby/toddler on a bike that we didn't feel deeply uncomfortable about. As a result we have bought a second car; DH used to cycle to work but now he'll have to drive so that we can share childminder pick-up and drop-off (we couldn't find one we were remotely happy with in reasonable walking distance of our house). Which is pretty depressing, to be honest: like so many people, we both think the planet is dying and don't want to make that worse, but we're not willing to make the compromises - particularly with DS - that would make it possible.

This video shows what a lorry drover can see in terms of a bike.

www.londoncyclist.co.uk/new-cycle-safety-film-illustrates-lorry-driver-perspective/

So yes unless the cyclist was very aware, I would be worried that they would not understand what other road users can and can not see.

If cyclists were road tested they would have a better understanding, it would also encourage better behaviour hopefully.

I've seen that video before and it's pretty scary for anyone who cycles. What amazes me is that people see that and argue that it shows that cyclists shouldn't be on the road - to me it shows that HGVs shouldn't be on these roads, or that they should be subject to a timed ban (ie they can only enter towns and cities between 12 and 5am). It's so fundamentally unsafe to have vehicles with such limited visibility on roads with not just bikes but pedestrians and small cars.

@leafinthewind Bloody hell! I don't go very fast and always take corners slowly because of the turning circle, I think I'll carry on not going fast! :)

I am not sure it would stop the stupid behaviour of some cyclists. But a test that showed cyclists understood for example what lorries can see and can't, would I am sure save lives.
As a car driver I am very aware that lorries have poor visibility and a longer stopping distance than cars, and factor that in to my driving.
Also in terms of cars being unsafe to cyclists - one thing as a car driver you soon realise is how bad some driving is on the road. That is why the driving test now is about defensive driving i.e. assume everyone else on the road is an idiot, and drive with this in mind. If you were cycling defensively, you would only use one of these in very quiet roads in the UK or residential streets with no boy racers.

NewAccount To me it shows that cyclists have to cycle bearing in mind the poor visibility lorry drovers have. I drive with that in mind.

People who live in Netherlands or Denmark use bicycles much more and transport single or multiple children. I've seen take to school multi child transport in various countries. In some places, it is the norm