Why don't men get 1 year paternity leave?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this?

I think it's hard to defend unequal access to parental leave. This is important for men, women and for children. The only argument against is an economic one. Is that a good enough reason?

The government are currently looking into extending the 2 weeks paternity leave to around 12 weeks I think - which would be a start.

So, men should be given 1 years paternity leave with pay and benefits equal to women - aibu?

At the very least paternity leave should be longer and as a society we should be doing more to increase the uptake of shared parental leave.
Apart from breastfeeding, men are just as capable as women at caring for their children.

Noalarmsandnosurprises My baby still breastfeeds a lot when I am there. He can cope without me there for long periods with solids and taking a small amount of expressed milk from a cup but he makes up for it afterwards. I do think it is likely to be quite stressful for him however.

Because they can't afford to ? Unless you are advocating full pay ,which would be a financial nightmare for most companies.....not to mention finding someone to cover their work for a year .We would have to employ someone to cover that ....then basically fire them after a year , hardly fair is it
We had 4 children ,husband had to save 2 weeks leave to for paternity leave , I and everyone else is same position managed just fine ....and children grew to normal human beings too

i haven’t noticed any particularly goady posts on this thread... though maybe they’re just going over my head!

Anyway, all things considered I think the current situation is pretty good, though personally I feel it’s a shame so few couples take up the option of shared leave, which is definitely something I and my mum friends from 25 or so years ago would have jumped at. Legislation around ML and paternity leave is better than it ever has been, and it’s certainly much easier to recover from the birth and bf (if that’s your choice) when you have the right to up to 12 months off, as opposed to 12 weeks

And with maternity pay, how will they afford to feed themselves if both are on maternity? I think you can share maternity leave now as well.

@noalarmsandnosurprises I had a month of leave before my baby was born because he was 2 weeks overdue. At 8 months yes he was eating solids but still breastfeeding 5 times a day and twice at night. He wouldn’t take formula from a cup or bottle. He could maybe have gone all day without a breastfeed but then I’d have had to feed him all night which wouldn’t be possible with my very stressful, long hours job. So in our case (not unique) shared parental leave would have been very difficult without putting me and baby under a lot of stress.

In any case, the feeding is a tiny part of it. SPL is good but leave that can only be taken by men in addition to the woman’s entitlement would be much better.

ghanagirl

do you really think that bf levels are so low because women go back to work? This is info from unicef
Breastfeeding initiation: 81% (up from 76% in 2005).
Exclusive breastfeeding at six weeks was 24% in England compared to 17% in Wales and 13% in Northern Ireland – see below for more recent survey results from Scotland.
Exclusive breastfeeding at three months: 17% (up from 13% in 2005).
Exclusive breastfeeding at four months: 12% (up from 7% in 2005).
Exclusive breastfeeding at six months (as recommended by the World Health Organization) remained at around 1%.

Do you think that there is such a drop in bf by 6w because most of the mums are back to work?? Cuz I believe it’s because other factors. And by 6 months it’s the same. Most of the mums that I know that are still bf their 1yo baby have been working for a while and yet their babies have coped. Some of them don’t even take a bottle but catch up on milk by the time the mum is back from work. And 1% of mums only bf which means the rest are ff so using the excuse of “no dads shouodnt have longer paternity leave because mums bf” like many have said to me is bonkers.

My husband being at home has been really good. I take that not all men are willing to take their responsabities when bring a baby to the world but I’d like to think that most do and even if they can’t bf they can change nappies when mum is having a nap. I’d have loved to have my husband at home when baby was 6w old and we were going through the crisis instead of me dealing with it on my own as he was at work

For the record I’m spanish and this week it’s been approved that men will have 16w off from 2021

as a society we should be doing more to increase the uptake of shared parental leave

Any ideas as to how?

I’m not suggesting all couples should take shared leave Harriet. I’m just saying it’s great that it’s available. (FWIW I’m an avid advocate of bf, and continued bf my dc1 long after returning to work when she was 12 weeks. It was bloody demanding physically though, still doing night feeds and expressing and then doing a day’s work on top.)
On a personal level I think if I were having babies now I’d probably take 6 or 9 months leave and then transfer some to dh, because to me, a year seems a long time out of the workplace, and also it’s when separation anxiety kicks in big time so perhaps not the optimum time to start leaving a child anyway, from their point of view. But it’s good that legislation has improved things so much and that the choices now are greater than ever before

chodeo it's a complex and multi faceted problem and I don't really have a solution.
Workplaces need to do more to encourage it's uptake. There are still deeply ingrained stereotypical views on the roles of men and women in relation to childcare. Men still typically earn more than women so financially it often makes sense for the woman to take the hit career wise - however, this becomes more pronounced after starting a family so shared leave and more equal working patterns may help tackle this.

Also, I've come across couples where the dad wanted to take up some shared parental leave but the mum refused to give up what she saw as her leave.

Not an easy problem to solve.

Only women breastfeedi. In exceptional circumstances I support extend paternity leave but only when the mother is fully recovered from the birth.

Do you think that there is such a drop in bf by 6w because most of the mums are back to work?? Cuz I believe it’s because other factors. And by 6 months it’s the same. Most of the mums that I know that are still bf their 1yo baby have been working for a while and yet their babies have coped. Some of them don’t even take a bottle but catch up on milk by the time the mum is back from work.

Probably true, but not much of a argument for SPL, if mum has to spend her time after work to catch up on the feeding she missed by being at work.

And 1% of mums only bf which means the rest are ff so using the excuse of “no dads shouodnt have longer paternity leave because mums bf” like many have said to me is bonkers.

No, it doesn't mean they are ff, it means they are likely to have introduced some solids before the recommended 6 months.

There’s a lot of assumptions being made there. I only know one couple who’ve used shared parental leave. The mum is an avid bf who continued bf long after she returned to work when the baby was 9 months old.
And conversely there are many many women who don’t bf at all, or bf for only a very few weeks who don’t work at all. Honestly if you don’t want to use shared leave then that’s your choice as a couple. But in the majority of cases it’ll have nothing to do with bf.

I'd support men (or second parent) getting 4 weeks at 90% Statutory Paternity the same as mums get.

I say 4 weeks, mums get 6 weeks but typically take 2 weeks before due date to rest before birth. Dads don't need that.

I believe BFing rates are so low in UK because mums need to focus on getting it established in the first 4-6 weeks. Not be treated as if they are SAHMs who are fully fit and capable of caring for themself, their new born, establishing feeding, running a house, visiting people and entertaining visitors.

They can share the years leave, my friend has chosen to do this with her DP.

Don't get this at all. It doesn't take two people to look after children full time for a year. My DH had 3 months gardening leave during my ML with DCs 3 & 4 (DTS 6-9 months at the time), we redecorated the house, had lots of lovely restful days as the older two were at school. But it seems excessive for the economy to bear the brunt of this luxury.

Yes, I would agree that bf wouldn't have a huge amount to do with it. It is a option available for couples to decide based on their particular circumstances. No personal knowledge, but would imagine more likely used where mum is more career oriented/higher earner.

“Honestly if you don’t want to use shared leave then that’s your choice as a couple. But in the majority of cases it’ll have nothing to do with bf.”

This. As said I’m back to work since 6m and currently I’m trying to breast feed to sleep my 11m baby with no success as playing is more exciting

Probably true, but not much of a argument for SPL, if mum has to spend her time after work to catch up on the feeding she missed by being at work.

Many days I’ve to. Many others I do. My argument for SPL the bond my child and my husband have got at the moment would have never occurred If we hadn’t done SPL. Another argument I work in such a changing market that a year without working would have been bad for my career.

“No, it doesn't mean they are ff, it means they are likely to have introduced some solids before the recommended 6 months.”

If only 1% bf by 6m I’m sure 95% are ff
Remember that milk is their main intake before a year.

However bf shouldn’t be used as an excuse not to allow men to have more time off to spend with their children. I’d love my husband to be able to have more time off instead of baby goinf next month into a nursery.

For the record I’m spanish and this week it’s been approved that men will have 16w off from 2021

Hoorah, that's great!

^If only 1% bf by 6m I’m sure 95% are ff
Remember that milk is their main intake before a year.^

No, your stats above refer to exclusive breastfeeding. If a baby has a bit of puree or some such, breastfeeding is no longer exclusive. It doesn't mean the baby is now on formula. (Some may be, others not)

That’s true Cecily, but the point is that there’s no correlation with SPR. Babies being fed formula, or given baby rice or purées or whatever before 6 months are not being fed that way because of SPR. To be frank, it’s more to do with sociodemographic factors as I said earlier.

Fair and rightly pointed Cecily I missed the exclusivity bit.

Yes I'm sure you are right, noalarm, I was just clarifying in response to European's post.