Why don't men get 1 year paternity leave?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this?

I think it's hard to defend unequal access to parental leave. This is important for men, women and for children. The only argument against is an economic one. Is that a good enough reason?

The government are currently looking into extending the 2 weeks paternity leave to around 12 weeks I think - which would be a start.

So, men should be given 1 years paternity leave with pay and benefits equal to women - aibu?

But I think I'll bow out now. Sorry for being rude to @Absofrigginlootly, I think you're dangerously wrong, but don't want to make you feel crap. Sorry.

Because men don't carry the child, give birth or breastfeed. They really don't need any recovery time after the birth. By law mum must take 2 weeks' compulsory maternity leave after the birth.

After that, Assuming mum has recovered physically if she wants to return to work, she gives up a portion of her maternity leave & he takes the rest as shared parental leave.

Are there just a few goady people on here tonight? There's also a thread about when's it international men's day? Every day mate actually.

Hedge ask any adoption social worker, foster cater or adoptive parent if there’s nothing special about biological mothers then. Adoptive parents are coached on the effects of maternal separation on children and the likelihood of resultant attachment disorders.

Tbh I’m not sure why I’m bothering. The evidence is there from a wide variety of scientific specialities (Neuroscience, evolutionary and developmental psychology, childhood studies, health visiting/nursing etc etc etc).

You have a particularly condescending way of posting about how we have all spectacularly missed the point ha ha what imbeciles we all are unlike yourself who is the only one with vastly superior intellect to truely understand the nuances of the evidence.
Except you’ve not actually provided any alternative narratives yourself backed up by evidence

Do t worry you’re not making me feel crap my dear my self esteem is quite robust enough

Do t worry you’re not making me feel crap my dear my self esteem is quite robust enough

Good!

Because men can’t get pregnant, give birth or breastfeed. Obviously..

Just read a few more comments. When I first started work men got nothing. Women got 14 weeks' mat leave, 18 weeks pay (yes I know made no sense then either!) then it was extended and extended which is brilliant. Just be careful what you wish for. The problem with asking for parity is often women's entitlements end up being reduced rather than men's increasing.

No matter how you look at it, bringing a baby into the world has a huge impact on a mother's life, health, body. There is so much more to it than changing nappies & pushing a pram (things anyone could do). It's one situation where mothers really do need additional protection and additional rights.

Before I had a dc I would say pregnancy isn't an illness it's a condition, working mothers just need to get on with it etc. (I'm an employment lawyer). Now I know that just getting out of bed and working through morning sickness, tiredness etc is really really hard going and 6 years on the stuff I have to do before I get to my desk in a morning is huge. Don't undermine our efforts and our achievements by undervaluing the substantial contribution made by mothers and how bloody hard it is just to keep standing still in the workplace. Where I work the impact on men's careers is mainly nothing like the impact on women's careers.

A within-families study on breastfeeding is a bit odd though, is it not?

For the study design to work, women have to have bf one child but not the other. This to me (& I confess I haven't read the study) seems to be unusual. Where there unusual circumstances surrounding the birth of these sibs?

@SusieSusieSoo do you think there's any validity in the idea that men taking longer off as paternity leave will benefit women overall? Closing the gender pay gap, increasing men's involvement in caring for children, increasing the likelihood of them requesting part time hours etc. Do you think the Scandinavian model is a bad idea?

It's a good point @assassinatedbeauty.

Equal leave has been in place in Sweden since the 70's I think.

There is a clear sense on this thread that women deserve mat leave and I absolutely believe they do. But everyone benefits from fathers being more involved in childcare, including and most importantly - children.

That's why I'm advocating for fathers separate leave, rather than the current system where women get less for men to get some.

European12345
So women going back to work at 6 weeks will improve breastfeeding rates.
Lots of reasons women in uk don’t breastfeed the contempt on this thread towards women’s choices is just one.
Taking away woman’s (and babies) rights to facilitate men’s rights isn’t progressive.

Taking away woman’s (and babies) rights to facilitate men’s rights isn’t progressive.

This

@AssassinatedBeauty I think that the biggest blockers to women's progress up the career ladder are how difficult it is to juggle children and a career. Anything that encourages that has to be a good thing.

It could be realistic workable flexible working (at all levels), giving men the ability to do this too, looking at traditional male & female roles.

I'm the legal profession there are more women joining as newly qualifieds and trainees but the working conditions are very hard & to reach the top & therefore influence things for others you basically have to either have a dh who does it all or a nanny. That means those at the top don't really understand how hard it is when you have to get dc's off to school before work, pick them up early enough to feed them, do homework etc, actually talk to them & parent them.

I can see in some cases dh will take the responsibility for childcare so dm can return to work etc but at work I don't really see it happening, with my clients it's only the "public sector" organisations where there is much uptake & within my friends groups, not at all.

I see paternity rights as a piece in the jigsaw but understanding how an organisation can retain working mothers & get the best out of them & also give them opportunities would be a much more effective way

Because it only takes one person to look after a child?
Because companies can’t afford to give a year’s leave to both male and female employees?
Because only women can breastfeed?

@Absofrigginlootly
As someone who is a health care professional I think @HedgePlastic
Obviously needs to read peer reviewed research not google.

Taking away woman’s (and babies) rights to facilitate men’s rights isn’t progressive.

This

Which women's rights are being taken away??

You could make living with the baby or having shared residency a condition for taking the leave.

Yay- another way to make life harder for single parents.

"Yay- another way to make life harder for single parents"

What do you mean, @Artesia?

My comment was in response to this post:

"Remember lots of babies are not born into relationships. It would theoretically be possible for a man to spend his entire working life impregnating different women and taking a year off afterwards."

I was pointing out that to prevent a man taking paternity leave constantly by having babies with lots of different women, it could be made conditional on living with the child, having the child resident with you via shared care or perhaps related to paying the minimum child maintenance. If it was considered to be a likely and problematic occurrence. Which I doubt it ever would be.

I don’t know how you’d define the “right” legally or whatever but how about the right for mother-infant pairs to actually spend some bloody time together to bond, recover, breastfeed, grow, nurture and do what every other female mammalian animal on the planet does when nature is not dicked about with.... were not sea turtles after all

God a lot of these posts are really sad.

They got a week in my day, which was plenty. They didn’t carry the baby or breast feed. Think it would be pointless & would cost far too much to implement

What about the benefits for a mother recovering from vaginal birth or a c-section, who will have her partner around to help more? Or for the father having more time to bond with his young baby and become equally involved in parenting from the very beginning? Or to maybe reduce bias against hiring women of child-bearing age (yes, it's illegal - but still happens)?

I work for a large multinational that gives equal parental leave for men and women and the overall reception has been fantastic. I honestly think it's a no-brainer and much better than having to share leave - if a woman's body isn't back to normal for a year after giving birth, why should she have to give up recovery time to allow the father to spend more quality time with their baby?

@absofrigginlootly, to me though mother baby bonding can be facilitated by paternity leave.

In my case, my dh took leave for the same period as I did. He cared for and bonded with the baby but his main role naturally became looking after our other child and preparing meals etc. This maximised my bonding time with baby. It was fantastic.

The breastfeeding stuff is a bit of a red herring (and hedgeplastic quite clearly enjoying the wind-up) because the fact is that not all mothers breastfeed and yet those parents who formula feed are not currently sharing leave at a high rate as far as I know

@catinthetwat

Your assumption that women have to get less for men to get more is incorrect. Many women can't afford to take a full year off even if they are entitled to it. I certainly couldn't.

In fact it benefitted us for my husband to have 12 weeks off as his firm paid enhanced paternity pay. I went back to work at 6 months.

Many women can't afford to take a full year off even if they are entitled to it.

It still limits it for those who can afford it.