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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inheritance awkward situation

110 replies

Snoopy90 · 01/03/2019 23:27

Just wondering if I could get an outsider's perspective on a complicated/awkward inheritance situation.

My Spanish mum died when I was young. Her parents have just died and have left me in their will to inherit an eighth of their estate consisting of a couple of houses and some land in Spain. My 7 aunts and uncles have also inherited an eighth.

The houses/land are obviously difficult to divide up between 8 so the aunts/uncles would like to assign 2/3 people to each thing. Each share is worth around 30k euros.

I'm very touched grandparents left me in the will to take on what would have been my mum's part. However, I strongly get the feeling my aunts/uncles what me to reject my part. I think they feel I'm less deserving as a grandchild rather than child. They have been saying some things which I feel are to try and put me off. Such as, suggesting the tax is going to be a headache for me to sort out between Spain and UK. One of my aunts has also offered me to inherit the material goods such as furniture instead of actual property - she says in order to relieve me of all the paperwork which is going to be a nightmare.

Part of me is thinking shall I just reject it in order to avoid arguments? Falling out over it isn't worth it to me and I'd rather loose my share than do this. I would be devastated if it all ended sourly. I've visited them every year since I was 10 to maintain the connection and they're all the family I've got left on my mum's side.

A couple of things to consider are that the 7 of them have been sorting all the paperwork/dealing with paperwork which has been very stressful for them. I haven't done any of this as I'm in the UK. So is it fair for me to get same share as them when they're putting all the work in? Also, they looked after my grandparents throughout old age and no doubt spent lots of money on their care. I haven't asked them about this as they are quite cagey about it all. However, I know my mum used to send money back home in the 80s and contributed to a flat the grandparents bought. No idea how much. I think she would want me to take on her part to represent her. And I'm guessing when my aunts/uncles die they will want their children to inherit their part.

Any ideas on what seems fair? Very tricky/awkward situation. Another thing I've just remembered is that when I visited recently they gave me 500 euros between them as a present for my newborn daughter. I'm just wondering if they were implying a pay off. Or maybe I'm overthinking it. It's so hard as I don't feel they're being straight with me.

Thanks in advanceSmile

OP posts:
BridlingtonSand · 02/03/2019 11:22

Get a lawyer, and claim your inheritance.

The point I’d like to make is that you’re doing a lot of thinking, presuming and “mind reading”. I wonder if this is tapping in to all sorts of family and personal processes? Would counselling help? In the meantime, take them at face value. If they mention that tax may be complicated, thank them for their concern and reassure them your professionals can handle it.

Siriismyonlyfriend · 02/03/2019 11:27

get a lawyer and claim your inheritance
Please do this and don’t be guilted into giving up what is rightfully yours.
They’ve got a cheek offering you the furniture instead.

thecatsthecats · 02/03/2019 11:36

That doesn't sound awkward at all. Your grandparents made a will, the people nearest and best able to deal with it are dealing with it. You get the share that your mother would have had, that your grandparents want you to have.

If anyone tries to change that, they're not good people. Honestly.

HollowTalk · 02/03/2019 11:43

This is what should happen, OP. If your mum had lived, you would have inherited from her later on. Now you're simply receiving her inheritance. Your aunts and uncles are very wrong to suggest otherwise. Stick to your guns. No, you don't want furniture instead. You want the Will to be stuck to, thanks.

PaintBySticker · 02/03/2019 11:49

Just to add our wills (UK) are written this same way - inheritance to our children but if they’re dead to our siblings and if any of them are dead then to their children. I’d be horrified if any of our siblings tried to cheat the children out of what we wanted.

bundesdelboy · 02/03/2019 11:59

Op, there is no open discussion on what is fair here - the wills have been made, the instructions need to be executed to the letter of the law, be the jurisdiction England, Spain or Timbuktu!

Do not be fobbed off with furniture - or be guilted into accepting anything other than one eighth of the estate. They'll have to buy out your share according to an objective market rate analysis if they want to keep the properties owned in the family - that's normal/standard as a way to deal with it.. not arbitrarily start assigning out a portion of a single property to a subset of beneficiaries.

Get yourself a lawyer in Spain NOW, your own, NOT one dealing with the family affairs, who works for YOU as the client.
Tell your family that the language and legal system is complicated so you want to make it easier to deal with your part if you feel you need to explain to them (you don't though).

Apart from anything, there could be debts and liabilities none of them are dealing with properly - if the executors are this ameteurish at dealing with the estate distribution, I'd want myself protected from future estate claims or tax problems. You need to protect yourself now and in the future, and that means a lawyer familiar with the relevant legal system & who provides impartial advice.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/03/2019 13:18

A small point, but personally I wouldn't bother saying how lovely it is that your GM wanted you to share ... they'll probably come straight back with "Ooooo we know she wouldn't have wanted us to have all these problems with you; she'd have been heartbroken"

IME, if folk are trying to be awkward, it's safer to keep it absolutely neutral, straight down the line - and in the hands of a solicitor

Kpo58 · 02/03/2019 13:24

Sounds like they want to fob you off with the furniture, so that they don't have to dispose of it themselves. I cannot imagine that the furniture will value up to 30k or sell for very much.

Siriismyonlyfriend · 02/03/2019 13:31

Yes and the op will then have to pay to import the furniture.

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 13:37

Just want to reiterate, they have NO right to say 'have the furniture' as it is part yours anyway!

Honestly? They want to keep it all and you need that lawyer asap and please don't ignore what was in the bank account anyway.

My friends relatives in Spain took 60,000 euros out of the account the day after he died 'for the funeral'

Get a Spanish lawyer asap. Am in Valencia, if I can help. Bear in mind, I, for example, need a lawyer that speaks Valenciano, if you are in Catalunia, you will need a lawyer that speaks Catalan etc.

Do investigate the bank account. There could have been 1000's in it.
People generally have savings do they not?

I repeat, the furniture is yours anyway! (In part) this alone proves they are cheating you.

As my DH said (in regards to my friend) 'if her uncle owned a bike, it's part hers'

Be savvy OP

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 13:41

PS lawyer obviously easily proved they had empties bank account and she got her money back.

It really is key that you understand that a) although you GP's obviously wanted you to inherit b) they had no choice! It is the law here and takes some getting used to.

Sadly I know exactly what your 'relatives' are up to. I believe they have been planning it for some time (present for baby etc) and are trying to blindside you.

Bank account, I amm worried about the bank account!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/03/2019 13:45

Just to add our wills (UK) are written this same way - inheritance to our children but if they’re dead to our siblings and if any of them are dead then to their children. I’d be horrified if any of our siblings tried to cheat the children out of what we wanted.

Does your will specify what would happen to the share due to any of your children if they've had their own children but then subsequently die before you do?

By the way you've written it here, it sounds a little ambiguous. i.e. if you had three children and each of them had two children, but one of your children predeceased you, it could be argued that your surviving children each get a third and the other third is split between your siblings; whereas surely you would want their children (your grandchildren from them) to have their deceased parent's third, wouldn't you?

Also, is it clear that you siblings would only get anything if ALL of your children had died (and you had no surviving grandchildren)?

It can be a real minefield. There was a thread a little while ago where a grandparent (whose wife had already died) had left money 'for the education of my grandchildren X & Y'. His daughter, the mother of X & Y had then spent the money on private school for her kids but then, some years later, her sister had children (having always maintained that she never would) and expected a share of the (already spent/committed) money for private education for her kids.

Legally, the grandfather had left money for his two named grandchildren, so their rightful money couldn't be partially spent on their cousins, but it would be reasonable to think that, had he known, he might well have wanted ALL of his GC to benefit equally, even those he never lived to meet.

Personally, I think that (assuming you've had children, of course), as you can never guarantee that all of your GC will have been born before your death - especially if you have one or more sons - the fairest way is to leave everything equally split between your children with the proviso that their share stays in their own family/line of descendants, should they (or even their own children) have died before you die.

Of course, there's then the possible scenario where your adult child predeceases you having been maybe very happily married and truly mutually devoted to their spouse for 30 years but without ever having had children. Do you then split your bequest between your surviving children or do you consider that your DIL/SIL with whom your DS/DD shared all of their money (as well as their life) for decades should therefore be entitled to the share that their DH/DW would have had, had they lived longer? Personally, I would say that they should, but it's a controversial one. And what if they'd been together but never married - or been together for 1 year, 2 years, 5 years?

Natsku · 02/03/2019 14:02

Definitely get a Spanish lawyer and make sure the estate is being valued by someone independent - properties, bank accounts, shares, valuable items such as cars, and any debts. Inheritance so often causes issues, people get greedy and suchlike. I'm dealing with my daughter's inheritance right now and her dad's family never even told me that she stood to inherit her dad's share of his grandparents' estate, if I hadn't got a lawyer to sort everything out I might never have known, or found out they are undervaluing the property so one uncle can buy it dirt cheap.

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 14:18

Natsku exactly, I have a real feeling that money is being hidden here.

Webuiltthiscity The thing is, in Spain it goes something like this... automatically 1/3 spouse 1/3 DC's (none of this is optional) 1/3 cats home or charity or whomever or whatever. No spouse or DC's? grandchildren, no grandchildren? cousins/nieces/nephews and so on. It is the law.

UK wills are utterly different!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/03/2019 14:40

Webuiltthiscity The thing is, in Spain it goes something like this... automatically 1/3 spouse 1/3 DC's (none of this is optional) 1/3 cats home or charity or whomever or whatever. No spouse or DC's? grandchildren, no grandchildren? cousins/nieces/nephews and so on. It is the law.

UK wills are utterly different!

I suppose at least you know where you stand in Spain. I was thinking from the basis of those of us in the UK.

Is that really the case in Spain, where you effectively have your money all taken and distributed by the state, regardless of your wishes? Does that cause a lot of people to make significant gifts when they know they don't have long left, so that they get to decide where their money goes rather than the state - or do they have laws in place to stop terminally ill/very elderly people doing this?

Again, from a UK standpoint, I don't think an automatic third to the spouse and then a third to the children is wise at all. In the case of a 'traditional/text-book' set-up (two people marrying only each other, all children belonging to them both and no further children or marriages/relationships), I think it's just common sense for the first spouse to leave everything to the surviving spouse and for them to then split everything that's left between the children on their death.

Are there any differences depending on the age of the children at the parent's death? If I've understood from what you've said, you could have a surviving partner being able to pay off half of the mortgage (if they use up all of what they're left with) and then struggling to still pay the other half whilst bringing up small children - when those little children have enough in their name to clear the family mortgage sitting in a bank account somewhere, which would allow their surviving parent to give them a better quality of life when young and then build up more savings/equity that they would then go on to inherit when it would be much more use to them than it ever would have been as toddlers. Then again, I presume you can hold money/property jointly, though, so that the first spouse/parent to die effectively leaves next to nothing anyway?

PaintBySticker · 02/03/2019 14:41

@WeBuiltThisBuffet

Yes. It’s all set out properly in the actual will drawn up by a solicitor. Obviously I didn’t copy it all out here.

17CherryTreeLane · 02/03/2019 14:48

I Think your grandparents wishes should be honoured, and how lovely that they thought of you.

My mum died when I was one, and when my grandparents died, the whole lot went to my Aunt. She gave me a plastic ring to remember my granny by.

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 14:52

Webuiltthisbuffet city Grin Yes, it is very odd to us Brits. I am in difficulties with my DH right now, unless he divorces me I will inherit from him, totally protected by law. My DD will inherit from me, and him, whether she kills someone, is in prison, or is a heroin addict and threatens me or even kills me! Nothing you can do.

You cannot disinherit family!

(Obviously I want DD to inherit from me!)

OP naturally inherits her share. You can't disinherit family.

You have the third to do with as you wish, if you die interstate... it belongs to the family.

Can someone tell me, in the UK can your parents disinherit you?

As soon as you own property here, you have to get a will.

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 14:57

My DH was married previously, my DSD will share 1/3 with DD.

No, no differences according to age.

My DD is 10 my DSD is 35... had all education paid for (1,000's). But, DD will inherit from me, not DSD as DSD is not my DD. But DSD will inherit from her Dad.

In some ways, yes, it is really good. It protects DC's and spouses.

For example, DSD is sure of her inheritance, I could not cheat her out of it (not that I would, ever)

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 15:00

17cherry Shock I am so sorry

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 15:08

What we do here, is, property ALWAYS goes to spouse. But we have 'usofructo' which means nobody can chuck you out, you have the right to live there until you die, but cannot sell.

Then, the property automatically passes to family (as in *OP's case)

OP needs to get on the deeds to all properties asap. If not, she may have even more problems. Has to be on the deeds and get an NIE number (very simple and you can do it in England easily through British embassy)

Again, her relatives know this and are sitting back cozy! They are NOT being honest.

If she is not on deeds, it is not her property as far as the law here is concerned she can't have a sale in the property. Of course, it is part hers and they know that.

DaisyDreaming · 02/03/2019 15:11

I always think money isn’t worth falling out over but your grandparents clearly wanted to include you and the aunts and uncles should respect those wishes.

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 15:14

To be clear, the houses are her property, but she cannot have a part in the sale if not on the deeds.

But it IS part hers, but it will be in the hands of these 'relative'

GAH, that was what I was trying to say!

It is very confusing to anyone from the UK. Totally normal for her. My point is, they know all this (just as I do, have been here for years) OP doesn't realise all this, I think.

WendyCope · 02/03/2019 15:17

Daisy the thing is the grandparents had no choice, it is hers whether they wanted it or not.

I know that sounds harsh and of course they wanted her to inherit, but it is the law her, there is no choice.

She inherits her share, end of! But she needs to get on those deeds asap!

Natsku · 02/03/2019 15:24

Similar where I am WendyCope, but half to the spouse and half to the children and then there's a whole sequence of inheritors if there are no children or if they predecease (grandchildren, parents, siblings, siblings children) but spouse can stay in the property until they die. You can state different in the will (e.g. my grandma put a specific amount for the grandchildren as well as the children) and if family don't contest then it goes according to the will but anyone who is owed a share can contest and get their rightful share (and if it's a minor child then a judge has to make sure they get their share as they are not allowed to be cheated out of their inheritance even if someone persuades them not to contest)