Sally challen and malice aforethought

[jessicawessica]

Whilst i have every sympathy with her 40 years living with an abusive and coercive husband, i can't help wondering how the court of appeal missed one vital issue.
She didn't go to her ex husband's house, get into an argument, find a random hammer lying about in the kitchen, then beat him to death. she already had the hammer in her bag when she arrived at her ex husband's house.
Ergo malice aforethought. Or am I missing something?

I posted a link to the Guardian article at the start of the thread and MN have made a video trying to raise awareness of coercive control. It's a shame more women on here haven't watched it (or indeed bothered to read the article).

I read the article you posted orchid it makes clear the extent breadth and depth of his utter control over her thoughts, actions and dependency upon him, to the degree she could not function without him, so indoctrinated was she, and had no mind of her own as she's never been allowed to develop one or benefit from the insights of others and different views.

I didn't know there's been an MN video though...I think a link on here to it would help

Here's the video Smother m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hC1pCi-GwGU#dialog

I also read article .
I genuinely don’t understand the legality around this
I get his behaviour (and the awful impact on her)
I just don’t understand whether the law says that this behaviour can drive XX behaviour and either the distress it causes can excuse the behaviour . I didn’t see that an the article either ?

Thanks Orchid

stopfuckingshoutingatme it sytematically deconstructs and shuts.down a woman through fear.of her.life, without her gaining any understanding of whats happening to her.

Ah yes, I have come across that orchid I think the new WA chief says it very well.

I am very confused by this case. The woman in it sounds just like my mother. Unfortunately I cut her off as she wouldn’t leave my dad and all us children suffered abuse from him too.
It’s really got me thinking if I should forgive my mum but at the same time I just can’t bring myself to. My mum has grown children who all offer her somewhere to go for nothing and we all funded her life since we left home. But she refuses to leave and constantly crawls around behind my dad. I couldn’t deal with it. I don’t understand maybe.

This case has really got me thinking and I don’t think I believe Challen had to do what she did. I believe she could have approached someone else before she went back to the dh but she didn’t. My mum is just like this, she used to phone me up crying that my dad had made her go without dinner, and yet we were there saying well just leave come round ours for dinner we’ll pay for rent somewhere et. but she couldn’t let it go she kept crying until my dad said shut up and it’s like she got a satisfaction from it. When I read Challen said if I can’t have you no one can Thats when I believe she should be locked up somewhere, she is not right in the head and I do believe she would be a danger to others maybe not now but if she goes back into a relationship I believe she could definitely pose a danger to a new partner. She is very damaged.
Just imo obviously.

That poor, poor woman. What a bloody awful life she’s had. It seems that her defence team was utterly useless and none of the abuse she suffered for three decades was taken into account during her trial so it was totally skewed. I hope she wins her appeal and walks free, I can see no reason for keeping her locked up. She’s no danger to anyone except herself.

I'm shocked that people can understand how abuse, even emotionall, over many years, can debilitate someone to the extent that they can't see a way out.

Can't understand that should say.

If you haven't lived it, you will struggle to understand as it really isn't logical or understandable.

I'm disgusted that women don't understand abuse. I put up with the cheating too. I've been gone a while now but am still having trouble relying on my own judgement, that's the extent of the control. It's terrifying and horrifying.

MMHQ have emailed and said there is some work in the pipeline re coercive control.

I haven't been through it but I've read enough threads on here from women who are in horribly abusive relationships and can't see a way out. In a way, I think the emotional abuse is much worse than the physical stuff. Your body can heal but your head can be damaged forever more

What worries me is where we draw the line here . She suffered years of abuse , and cracked . And presumably isn’t a danger to society . Someone wiser than me will make that judgement .

But what of a damaged child who is abused in so many horrific ways . , and turns into a damaged adult who due to the trauma also flips . They stab someone . Do they get the same mercy? I would imagine not

Do we extend the same argument to them . I am just genuinely questioning whether her trauma (whilst prolonged ) is worse than others who don’t get much sympathy at all

Many other people who
Commit crimes have been hugely emotionally damaged too . Do we only extend this to women ??

I'm disgusted that women don't understand abuse

I Saddened that women who DO understand abuse are not allowed to have different opinion of this case or raise questions . It’s the usual
MN shtick that if you don’t agree with a
Consensus view you are a band person .

I can hate and emphasise with the abuse , and have some moral
Concerns in parallel

Gilead, you didn't murder your abuser though from behind, while he was sitting at a table, with a hammer you had ready in your handbag did you?

I'm quite angry this case is being used as one of the first high profile cases with coercive control as a defence. I worry other cases won't be taken seriously.

@MissEliza & @Gilead I can see that some people might not see a way out and I certainly understand abuse but that gives them no right to harm someone in the way Challen did and consequences must follow else where do you draw the line.

There are consequences. She's spent 7 1/2 years in prison already.

Can we go back to John Broadstone? Sentenced to less than 3 for inflicting catastrophic injuries on a woman he barely knew. Not because she had made his life a living hell but because he claimed she liked rough sex

I'm quite angry this case is being used as one of the first high profile cases with coercive control as a defence. I worry other cases won't be taken seriously

You are angry? Who with?

Why? She was coercively controlled for 3 decades. She was irreparabley damaged by this. She should have been charged with manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. I suspect this is exactly the kind of case where CC will be used - correctly - as a defence.

More cases will be women taking men to court, accused of coercive control. It’s going to be interesting to see how many cases make court, and how many result in sentencing.

The abuser obviously abusses the DC too korsm and renders the DM unavailable to others, makes for a situation where DC and others find it very difficult to understand not blame etc, as despite everything offered you are rebuffed and it makes no sense, seemingly, so often, despite being so highly abused her mind is gone and controlled by him, she will often get the blame too.

It takes a lot of professional intervention to have any hope and some sort of trigger point to really glimpse the outside view sadly that just doesn't always happen, so the woman is lost to it.

I am.sorry you have been through that

The majority of women who leave an abusive relationship do not go back

Eventually they might not go back but they do go back a number of times

The majority of women who leave an abusive relationship do not go back

I think the average they go back is seven times, they they eventually leave.

Thanks @Smotheroffive I don’t blame my mother but my experience is my mother would go to no end to please my dad and when I asked her to baby sit and keep my own dd safe she didn’t and she also allowed my nephew to be pushed about by my dad as if it was normal. After several warnings to keep my dd safe I gave up and walked out on it all. I feel much better for it, I had a row on the phone about my mum letting my daughter be with abusive people after asking her to babysit at my house not theirs and while I was at work she was taking my dd to their house without me knowing.

On the call I could hear my dad in the background saying ah don’t bother with korsm then, I knew she’d chose my dad over anyone. She said she didn’t want to speak to me again so I said ok and haven’t heard from her since.
This is why I truly believe it would take a lot longer than 7 years to ‘fix’ someone in this scenario and I definitely believe that my mum could not be in a relationship without repeating this again and whenever people with dependency personalities enter into these relationships there’s always a trail of destruction behind them.

Sally’s trail was just greater than most. And when i say Challen should face consequences i didn’t mean she deserves life in prison but I do believe she should not be back free in society even for her own good until psychiatrists can prove she won’t be a danger to herself or others (which maybe they will prove). I’ve spent my entire adult life recovering from the damage and it’s only now I’m not part of it all I am not under the abuse myself and I am finally breaking the cycle. My sister is in an abusive relationship now. It’s just sad all round but that doesn’t mean this lady should be waved out of prison as if nothing happened in the very least constant monitoring because as I’ve said there is no way in hell my mum would not be running after someone else to be dependent on if my dad left her so the cycle doesn’t even end with that relationship, it only ends with the woman stopping the cycle unfortunately, not the abuser disappearing. The personality disorders lie within her for a lot longer than the relationship even if they are a result of the coercive control. Indeed the Challen sons mentioned she’s still saying she loves ‘him’ in prison. For me that suggests she’s not ok still. I hope Challen finds the peace she does deserve though.