1st time at Magistrates Court

[Nothininmenoggin]

Posting for traffic here so hope some magistrates or lawyers can answer this. My son is due at magistrates for backchatting a BT policeman and riding his bike on the platform, he didn't realise you couldn't do this and platform was empty at time and he had literally seconds to get on train.
Unfortunately he has a spent sentence which he received as a youth just wondering if the magistrate will be told of this when he appears before him and if so do they take previous convictions into account. He has turned his life around since youth conviction I'm just scared this will hamper his chances of the career he wants to pursue in the armed forces. He has written a letter pleading guilty to the court and is genuinely sorry. He is worried that the magistrate will be convinced he is a bad person because of the past.

I really can't imagine the Armed Forces will worry about a teen cycling on a station platform and telling a BT policeman to f off.

Inability to respect authority would be a big concern for the armed forces!

He will need to be honest about this in his application, and show that he understands what the issue is and can explain how he will deal with being given orders he doesn’t like in the armed forces.

I think you’re fundamentally missing the point here. The reason why he shouldn’t be cycling on a train platform is because it’s dangerous for HIM. That’s why it’s completely irrelevant if the platform was empty or not which you seem to be using as an excuse. If he only had seconds to make the train, that’s again his fault for not leaving enough time.

If he swerves, there’s debris on the platform, or station benches/pillars in his way and he falls on the tracks, he could be dead or seriously injured right now. You have to remember that parts of the railway tracks are electric, trains approach at speeds where they can’t instantly stop, and that there are trains that pass through stations that aren’t on the departure boards (non stopping services, freight etc). It makes it worse that he was attempting to ride his bike straight to the train doors - this suggests that he was rushing and not even paying proper attention. Frankly I couldn’t give a shit if your son wants to risk his life like that and dies - but surely you should? Yes there’s the anti social aspect of it as well, but his personal safety obviously trumps that which is what the officer would have been primarily concerned about. Instead the officer was met with abuse lol

Out of all crimes the railway laws and the transport police are arguably the most minor. Your son isn’t a hardened criminal and he can still enjoy the rest of his life. However it’s best that he nips his behaviour in the bud now and learns some real life lessons, because this sort of thing can easily escalate. Railway bylaws today, burglaries in a few years.

hastingsmua1 Thank you for you patronising and condescending post. I have been on this planet long enough to appreciate the risks of riding bikes along a train platform. I was merely painting the picture of what happened.

At no time have I excused it or condoned it. I'm livid with him. As you so nicely put it I do infact "give a shit" if my son lives or dies be it on a train track or anywhere else. You sound really like a delightful human being and if in fact you looked at my original post and the query I had you have answered not one bit of it.

All you have done is come on here to belittle and accuse. I hope it makes you feel good about yourself.

As it's a level 3 sentence, it looks like it will be a £1,000 fine.

It might be reduced because of the guilty plea.

sentencing scale

I don't know about the byelaw fine but expect it will be like any other on the spot penalty where if you don't pay within a certain time the amount goes up.

My son is due at magistrates for backchatting a BT policeman

he told the policeman to fuck off

That's not backchatting. Backchatting would have been "oh, get a life" What he did was to be verbally abusive to a police officer, who was making a perfectly reasonable request.

He has turned his life around since youth conviction

Yeah.... sound like it.

@hastingsmua1

Oh come on, cycling along an empty train platform is hardly hugely more dangerous than cycling along a bloody road with cars and lorries and busses.

What if there was debris and he fell in front of a bus????

I have no time for anyone who verbally/physically abuses our hard working police force. He needs to grow up big time before joining the armed forces.

@hastingsmua1 and @BlueSkiesLies

If he was cycling towards the train doors to get on a train, he could have seriously injured someone else who was stepping OFF the train onto the 'empty' platform.

Oh come on, cycling along an empty train platform is hardly hugely more dangerous than cycling along a bloody road with cars and lorries and busses
Does that make it right? Does it make it not dangerous? All you need is for him to come off his bike just at the time a high speed train comes along and not only will he be dead but the driver will seriously traumatised, the emergency supplies will have to pick up the pieces (literally) and his family will have lost him permanently.
It is a big deal and it is dangerous. At least cars and buses are on the lookout for bikes; train drivers aren't.

I hope it works out ok OP ...Can I just say that pretty sure most of us in our youth have done daft things but hes 18 now and he has to realize,I hope you and dad arent going to pay the fine either...I would insist he gets a bar job on a night or something similar and pays it himself...you never forget financial hard lessons!!!! Also it ight get him back on track if his time is spent working rather than hanging about with his friends.

Sally thanks for your post. No we aren't going to pay the fine he knows that. He has a job one night a week in a bar he can pay it from his earnings.

I understand that you hope the Armed Forces might straighten him out but he doesn’t sound like he respects authority or likes taking orders. Blaming his friends is also a cop out, it’s not that he doesn’t understand right from wrong, it’s just that he doesn’t give a f*. He’s 18 now and yet Mummy is still doing the running around.

I have to agree with some of the above posters because the ‘kids eh’ doesn’t sit right with ‘we take this very seriously’. I hope he’s playing for the bloody solicitor.

You have received good advice already around what to do in court and I won't repeat that advice.
For al those who believe the cops should have bigger fish to fry than a man on a bicycle, they do. They also asked him not to cycle on the platform....he pushed the issue by refusing...the ball was on his court all along. If you are happy with yobs doing as they please on the network great

I think these are the right sentencing guidelines for the offence:
www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/disorderly-behaviour-harassment-alarm-or-distress-2/
The fact that offence was committed against a public servant in the course of his duty is taken into account. For that reason he would be well advised to get a solicitor to speak for him.
Fines are based on income, there is a chart in the link.

Telling a policeman to f*k off is NOT an offence (although, it may possibly be if there were also aggravating factors such as threats to kill eg "fk off copper or I'll f**ing kill you")

If there were other people nearby and he had spoken very loudly or shouted the insults then it may also be an offence as the police may claim that it.

But, if it was just him and the policeman then there was no offence committed.

When it comes to legal aid, regardless of what you were told I would suggest that it is worthwhile for him to make an application for legal aid. Depending on his income, he may not get full legal aid but he may have to pay something towards it.

If, by doing this, he avoids a conviction under Section 5 Public Order Act then it will make his joining the army an awful lot easier.

as the police may claim that it.

may claim that it distressed or harassed other people on the platform

@BlueSkiesLies Christ, how dim are you, darling? You’re much more likely to survive being hit by a bloody bus vs a train. No one will win against a train - he would have been decapitated, especially if his bike trapped him in. Trains are very long so it takes them more time to come to a complete stop and they obviously cannot swerve to avoid trespassers. Non stopping trains come at high speeds so an empty platform isn’t a safe one. Tell you what, why don’t you go and test it out and report your findings?

Oh for goodness sake just to stop this petty arguing, the train station in question is a very very small station in that ONE train can get in it at a snail's pace and then out again at a snails pace. Now before you all combust again I AM NOT CONDONING HIM RIDING ON THE PLATFORM AT ALL however he was not about to be blitzed between 2 trains as only 1 can get into said station. Thanks to all who answered my original query and have been supportive with their comments and especially to a lovely MN who has reassured me 're the dealings with the court. I'm now bowing out of this thread as I know what to expect now and that's all the answer I need.