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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Priests just handing out School Admissions letters

154 replies

Marypoppins19 · 24/02/2019 22:45

I’m prickly about this, but friends who live closer to a school of our choice, but only go to church at Christmas, have still managed to get a church support form. We go weekly, always have. AIBU to think this is unfair and breaking the rules?
AIBU to consider saying this in an appeal?

OP posts:
Lichtie · 25/02/2019 11:58

"How is a Roman Catholic education different to a state education? Should all believing parents be entitled to a faith based education for their children?"

I think everyone should be entitled to the same standards of education at all state funded schools, albeit I accept this is largely unlikely due to demographics etc.

But I don't think anyone should feel entitled to the state funding their choice of religion. Schools (imo) should be about education not indoctrination.

drspouse · 25/02/2019 12:01

Unless - gosh could this be true - the faith schools are getting better results because of their intake, and despite the extra time spent on assemblies etc.?

I'd argue, personally, that some of the extra time is beneficial in terms of broadening children's experience. For example, a local Catholic primary puts on a Passion play at Easter. While this does therefore take away from other subjects, it's quite a sophisticated performance, and the Passion narrative is central to European culture, and also common to many African and South American groups.

TeddTess · 25/02/2019 12:22

*TeddTess, so you’d assume that faith schools are showing weaker results in Geography, History and science then.

Except they’re not. So an atheist choosing a faith school for their academic results is still making a good choice for their child regardless of assemblies etc.*

Primary school students are not tested on humanities, or general knowledge. Nor Science (not really). So how do you know?

DoneLikeAKipper · 25/02/2019 12:28

the faith schools are getting better results because of their intake, and despite the extra time spent on assemblies etc.?

They get better results because they are allowed to be selective. No different from grammar schools, and one of many reasons why they are Not A Good Thing.

Krouse64 · 25/02/2019 12:43

I’m a regular church goer and was head of my sons pta for many years and the church and school worked very closely together. When my youngest ds was applying for secondary schools we had a priest who despite being in the parish for only a year knew me well as I had attended many church events. When I walked into his office he said he couldn’t sign the form as he didn’t recognise me or ds. I left the office very upset and my husband who was a non catholic and didn’t attend church was waiting in the car. He took the form from me and went to see the priest he was back in 5 mins with form completed and said I gave him £100 and he signed. I’ve never set foot in a church since. Such a corrupt system

Puzzledandpissedoff · 25/02/2019 12:56

Do you lot voice the same about Jewish schools, Muslim Schools ??!!

Speaking for myself, yes; I feel exactly the same no matter what religion's involved

Nice attempt to make it about discrimination though. Maybe, when a system's been shown to be indefensible, that's the only argument left? Hmm

LaFreaka · 25/02/2019 13:01

And put church goers further down the admissions criteria to non-church goers. That would make it fair. Can you imagine the screams of religious discrimination if this were to happen?

namechanger2019 · 25/02/2019 13:01

Yes, I believe all schools should be secular. Religion has no place in schools imo.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 25/02/2019 13:22

he was back in 5 mins with form completed and said I gave him £100 and he signed

I believe you're right about the corruption - but please tell me you weren't surprised?

FindPrimeLorca · 25/02/2019 13:23

You could put a little form on the community schools’ application form marked Sign here if you agree that there is probably no God. People who sign go into category 3 (behind special needs/adopted and siblings). People who don’t go into category 4. Completely fair.

flumpybear · 25/02/2019 13:23

@Krouse64 - I'm really surprised .... surprised you're the first who has said this!!

SoupDragon · 25/02/2019 13:23

Nice attempt to make it about discrimination though.

It is about discrimination though.

SoupDragon · 25/02/2019 13:26

You could put a little form on the community schools’ application form marked Sign here if you agree that there is probably no God.

You could also sort them in order of baptism with those baptised closest to birth right at the bottom of the admissions criteria. At least one local faith school does this in reverse. As someone else said, can you imagine the protests ?

BoringPerson · 25/02/2019 13:29

Oh as usual its turned into the bashing of "disgusting church schools"

Do you lot voice the same about Jewish schools, Muslim Schools ??!!

I disagree with all ALL selective schools. That's ALL religious schools and ALL grammar schools. I'm not a fan of private schools either TBH. Imagine if all everyone had to attend their local school - pretty sure there would suddenly be a bit more investment in education

Krouse64 · 25/02/2019 13:30

I’m shocked that I’m the first to say it, as having spoken to many of my friends about it i discovered it was normal. I was surprised because with our previous priest we never made a donation.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 25/02/2019 13:30

It is about discrimination though

If you mean against anyone who doesn't belong to the "favoured religion" you're right, but I was thinking more of the groups' claims of discrimination against themselves - as in the previous implication that the same wouldn't be said if it was about x, y or z religion

My fault if I put it badly though ...

isittheholidaysyet · 25/02/2019 13:31

How is a Roman Catholic education different to a state education? Should all believing parents be entitled to a faith based education for their children?

A true Roman Catholic education is very different to secular education.
Different in its fundamentals, aims and philosophy.

I think Catholics in the uk are just beginning to rediscover what education is all about.
A full, true Catholic education is not being given in England's Catholic schools at the moment because they are being run in conjunction with the state, and because so many children in them are not Catholic.

I think this is why there is such a rise in home education among Catholics at the moment.

I think it is totally unfair that children should be discriminated against through their education due to their parents' religion

So do I. But it is a parents duty to educate their children how they see fit. I would love to give all children access to a Catholic education, but it has to start at home with the parents, who are the first and primary educators of their children.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 25/02/2019 14:01

Unfortunately the best results are from
The C of E and catholic schools

So people will sometimes lie and cheat to get in

And both catholic and CofE will be swayed

It’s shit

SassitudeandSparkle · 25/02/2019 14:06

OP, is this because they live closer than you do to the school so have an advantage anyway? Do you attend church for reasons of faith or for the school!

Auntiepatricia · 25/02/2019 15:21

I think lying and cheating to get it is perfectly acceptable. They shouldn’t have to.

ForalltheSaints · 25/02/2019 15:24

There have always been people who suddenly 're-discover' their faith for a few years so as to get a place in their desired school. If you don't get in you can appeal but don't pin all your hopes on this.

SoupDragon · 25/02/2019 15:34

So do I. But...

If you add a "but"that means that you actually don't feel it is wrong to discriminate on the basis of religion.

... it is a parents duty to educate their children how they see fit.

Yes, but if they want something specific like a faith based education then they should pay for it.

I would love to give all children access to a Catholic education, but it has to start at home with the parents, who are the first and primary educators of their children.

It should start and finish at home with the parents unless they are prepared to pay for it. Religious discrimination has no place in state funded education.

drspouse · 25/02/2019 15:41

Imagine if all everyone had to attend their local school - pretty sure there would suddenly be a bit more investment in education
Or it would all be on postcode.

SaturdayNext · 25/02/2019 16:00

If people want to stop Church schools ,they also need to stop Grammar schools, massively unfair system that only benefits very few kids and only if you live in certain areas

Fine with me.

Oh as usual its turned into the bashing of "disgusting church schools" Do you lot voice the same about Jewish schools, Muslim Schools ??!!

Yup.

bellinisurge · 25/02/2019 16:01

I'm a (rubbish) Catholic in a Catholic area. Different area to the one I grew up in which was also a Catholic area. We had at least one failing primary and a failing secondary school which both cried out for people to go there. People were abandoning them in droves. I couldn't get my dd into the local non- Catholic primary and so we ended up in the Catholic one. It turned itself around while we were there. Although the secondary is also turning itself around, I made sure my dd has gone to one of the local non-Catholic secondaries which is much better.

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