Priests just handing out School Admissions letters

[Marypoppins19]

I’m prickly about this, but friends who live closer to a school of our choice, but only go to church at Christmas, have still managed to get a church support form. We go weekly, always have. AIBU to think this is unfair and breaking the rules?
AIBU to consider saying this in an appeal?

I agree that religious schools shouldn’t exist (I’m a Christian) but since they do, there should be a fair playing field for getting in. This doesn’t seem fair.

So perhaps they should get rid of the religious aspect to the admissions process altogether? Dispense with the priest's letter, so that there is genuinely a fair playing field for all children.

It absolutely isn't fair to give a broader range of educational choices/opportunities only to children who happen to come from religious families and/or whose parents know how to play the system.

Maybe the priest recognises how completely ludicrous the admissions process for faith schools is (as is the very existence of faith schools) so this is his act of rebellion? Good on him.

So perhaps they should get rid of the religious aspect to the admissions process altogether? Dispense with the priest's letter, so that there is genuinely a fair playing field for all children.

Yes, that sounds like a good idea.

My children went to a church school, we were never asked what religion we were. The vicar just came into school every so often and did assemblies and they did Christmas/Easter at the church. They would probably not fill the places if they just gave them to children who are members of the church, and wouldn't be able to stay open.

A) this is a completely ridiculous system and I can't believe you are taking part in it

B) how Christian of you to complain about your priest and stating that you go to church more than your friend. A true Christian would trust her priest and pray about it, not write on mumsnet and complain. If your friend gets in and you don't then the Christian thing to do would be to accept that it is God's plan and be happy for your neighbour.

BTW - I don't believe in God but you clearly do so I'm sure you completely are on board with my B) statement

@baywatchfanatic - it's because Christian and religious people tend to be the least accommodating in life IME

Admissions criteria only come into play when a school is oversubscribed. But parents need to be aware especially as under/over can change year by year.

I worked in a C of E state secondary school. There were 12 contributory parishes each with their own priest. ( I attended one of these and was a Church Warden for some years)

The admissions forms and criteria were overly wordy and complex.

It was quite an unfair system as Priests would, probably honestly, interpret their responsibilities and the criteria in different ways.

Some expected weekly attendance, membership of groups etc from y4 onwards. At the other extreme others would support admission if you’d been at Christmas once or twice.

Some families put down long dead or moved on priests as their faith references.

My own church had signing in sheets. Some signed the sheet, in the entrance, and then went home. So lists put out at end of service - big congregations of people who didn’t want to be there, others signing for friends. All a mess and unfair.

One of the deciding factors was a member of the congregation who, due to recurrent illness/hospital stays couldn’t attend and sign. Her child was rejected.

We scrapped the signing in sheets and said that those interested should let the Church know of their interests, introduce themselves. It seemed fairer - but legally it wouldn’t have stood up to inspection.

I’m not at the school any longer. It’s over subscribed but to an extent self selecting. It’s selective reputation precedes it and so many simply do not apply.

I’m not sure what the answer is but I’d recommend that parents read the admissions criteria well in advance and then decide on their plans.

Am I in favour of faith schools - no, not now.

B) how Christian of you to complain about your priest and stating that you go to church more than your friend. A true Christian would trust her priest and pray about it, not write on mumsnet and complain. If your friend gets in and you don't then the Christian thing to do would be to accept that it is God's plan and be happy for your neighbour.

What a load of nonsense.

Blind trust in priests isn’t demanded if Christians. It’s really harmful. Christians also aren’t called to be doormats. Standing up for what’s right and against injustice, not simply accepting everything as God’s will is perfectly compatible with faith.

I think it is totally unfair that children should be discriminated against through their education due to their parents' religion.

To be honest - its a church school. they are often completely random in their admission criteria and depending on who you know, not your faith. our neighbours daughter got into our very catholic ofsted outstanding primary school because her mum knows loads of people. never been to church, not babtized. a - very catholuc - friend’s daughter didn’t get in (same admission round) although they live closer, go to church at least weekly and volunteer loads. Tells you all you need to know about the school and its respect for parents....

If my child goes to a local school where I live they have no choice but to go to a Catholic ethos school where they spends hours each year on praying, bible study, going to church for mass during school time, learning about original sin and preparing for holy communion.

If we don’t want that for our child we have to send them out of area to a non denominational school. Then they are excluded from non religious local events because they are only open to children who attend local schools.

This is Ireland in 2019.

Sorry it doesn’t answer your question but your problem is such a non problem - unless your child or some other church going child is being refused a place in the school of his choice.

There is an argument that goes like this (regardless of whether we should have church sponsored schools);
Faith schools were created to provide a Christian education.
The ones most in need of a Christian education are not those whose parents already provide a strong Christian upbringing that includes weekly attendance.
Therefore the priest feels their duty is to support those on the fringes of Christianity or with very limited Christian input from their parents.
It’s called evangelisation and is about spreading God’s message more widely.
Maybe this is where your priest sits.

I'm with you OP, seems unfair.
If one of the benefits of ruining your Sunday every week is that you get into a school then they should enforce it strictly (seems only fair as the rest of the benefits are quite likely made up nonsense)

Do really want your DC’s go to a school system which operates this way?

Yes, if it is the way to get a decent education and avoid a failing sink school.

The failing sink school where all the nasty non-Christian children can go.

What is wrong is that parent can use churches to get placements at better schools full stop. It’s appalling. If you are going to have a state education sector it shouldn’t discriminate on religious grounds. Maybe your priest just thinks it’s bullshit and in the true spirit of Christianity will happily support anyone who asks for his help. Good for him/her I say.

I think it's terrible that children are discriminated against based on their parents religion. School should be about education not religion.

Unfortunately the numbers of people who attend church is dropping massively so it's in the churches interest to link church attendance to school entry as it makes people attend church who wouldn't otherwise. It's a fucked up and deeply unfair system.

I can't see how anyone who is a Christian thinks it's ok unless it's for their own self interest. If it was actually about religion then why not put on some extra curricular religious classes and see who actually bothers turning up.

@PutpleDaisys is right in that most Christian denominations no longer expect blind obedience but she’s completely miss OPs absolute lack of Grace. Grace is the core of true Christianity along with compassion, charity, forgiveness, justice and so on and the only person who seems to have any of these virtues here is the priest

I agree with the priest - everyone should get a letter - the whole bloody system is flawed - it's time to get religious privilege out of state schools. Very funny though that you are complaining about the system being unfair to you - imagine that - welcome to the world on the non religious!

Yes, we couid get rid of them, but it wouid mean buying out the current owners (the state can't just take privately owned property, they have to buy it).

No, it wouldn't. It would simply mean telling them they will no longer get state funding unless they open up entry in the same way as other state funded schools.

If people want to stop Church schools ,they also need to stop Grammar schools, massively unfair system that only benefits very few kids and only if you live in certain areas ,

I came across a situation where the criterion for a church school was regular attendance at a local church. The child in question did attend regularly, but her mother had MS and when she was unwell her grandparents took her to their local church. However, apparently that wasn't good enough to get her a place., even when it was pointed out that she was as godly or more so than many of the children who were admitted, and even when it was suggested to the authorities that they weren't setting a very Christian example. It was only when the mother got funding for disability discrimination proceedings that they relented.

What happens her e is that people start attending church when their child is in year 4 or 5 to get their child into to massively oversubscribed C of E school which is outstanding (but hasent actually had an Ofsted since 2011) as soon as they get the place they stop attending.....

Honestly I think it's fair enough if the child is baptised RC and the parents want an RC education then they should be entitled to it. Our local primaries are all based on that, rather than how often you attend mass or how much the priest knows/likes you. I think it's much fairer. You don't know why someone does/doesn't go to mass on a Sunday. You don't know their circumstances.

But those who send their kids to an RC school without believing in it are truly mad - i have had 3 dcs go through catholic primaries. The amount of time they spend on RE is HUGE! Basically they do English, Maths & RE...