AIBU to feel f****d off with a world built for men?

[DarjeelingDarllng]

I read** this article with increasing horror.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Many parts I recognise; the phone for example, I have a better camera but the phone is larger so harder to actually use.

I struggle to sit on most chairs easily as my feet don't touch the floor; this has caused some back issues.

I've known that most medical research has always been done on white men aged around 25.

The 'gender neutral' toilet thing is just obvious.

This quote, below, pissed me off the most, not least that there was once an AIBU where a pregnant woman was querying at what point did everyone stop driving as she was really struggling. 70% of people (roughly) said, just get on with it. The rest agreed it was challenging.

I very sadly know of a woman who was involved in a minor crash a week before her due date; the baby died.

The situation is even worse for pregnant women. Although a pregnant crash-test dummy was created back in 1996, testing with it is still not government-mandated either in the US or in the EU. In fact, even though car crashes are the No 1 cause of foetal death related to maternal trauma, we haven’t yet developed a seatbelt that works for pregnant women. Research from 2004 suggests that pregnant women should use the standard seatbelt; but 62% of third-trimester pregnant women don’t fit that design.

weetabix I did. I do. Then I have to drive a hire car or a pool vehicle/ site vehicle for work. And I have to jump around like a bloody idiot to grab the boot handle.

I have a friend who has a sideline in weaving bespoke grab handles for car boots. Came about when she was given a vehicle for work (no choice) that she couldn’t actually reach her own damn boot.

The top shelves are my eye level so I have to lift hot containers with liquid in from there to work surface level, very possible and I do it but it really isn't safe.

There are definitely some things that I wouldn't use it for - la cruset casserole pot etc because it's just a stupid risk to take.

Pushchair handle height was actually an ironic comment, they are based on women's average height of 50 years ago because you know babies are wimmins work...

With becoming more involved now adjustable heights has become more of a thing because you know it now matters to men, tall women have been suffering for 50 years!

Women are on average 5" shorter than men; 50% of women will be below the average height for women. Thats under 5' 4" in the UK.

There are workarounds for many of the problems, for example its not hard to see how the interior of a car boot could have a built in hook for a hanging loop.
The problem is that the designers literally cannot see there's a problem in the first place as they see themselves as the standard.
And they aren't, university students are taller than average.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_human_height_worldwide

I don't know what the answer is then. Cars have many different specs. I'd love a car with rear parking sensors or rear camera because I find it painful to twist around, I'd like electrically adjustable seats so that I could adjust to exactly the right position, an electronic parking brake because arthritis in my hand makes a manual one painful to use - but these weren't available in the cars that had other features that we wanted at a price we wanted to pay. Is that because men purposely did this?

Something that’s always bugged me is sporting equipment. Women generally make up 50 - 80% of spin class participants yet spin bikes are designed around male anatomy. I’ve never been able to sit comfortably on a spin bike.

We have just moved into a new “agile” office where we’ve been informed that the chairs will work for everyone. My secretary (who is petite) can’t sit comfortably on the chair as there is no way to adjust the horizontal seat panel so it doesn’t dig into the underside of her knees and allows her to put her feet on the ground. Of course, no provision has been made for those who may need a different chair!

@pinegreen I always have to get a "special" chair H&S come along and agree that there isn't the required 2" between the edge of the chair and the back of my knees and we get the catalogue out and order the one chair that fits! At least there is one in the catalogue.

Last 3 places I've worked had the same conversation "but these chairs are super adjustable", "yes but I'm very short the chair is too deep" they whizz along and are most shocked to find I'm telling the truth

Is that because men purposely did this?
No. No one has said this.

The problem is they often see themselves as the default and don't think to ask for other peoples experiences.

Thats how we end up with toilets of all one height, placed in the middle of the stall while we bump elbows with an awkward sanitary waste bin.

And that is obviously very frustrating but do they fit most other people?

Presumably they are supplying chairs that can be adjusted to fit the majority of people. If not, then yes, I agree you are right to complain. If all of the chairs are made to fit only people 5'10 and above then I can see your argument. But if your complaint is that standard chairs aren't suitable for people 5 foot and under then that's not reasonable is it, because they will be unsuitable for the vast majority.

Thats how we end up with toilets of all one height,

How much shorter would you like toilets to be then?

Public toilets could have a stall with a lower toilet in. And another with a taller toilet. Like in shops when theres a checkout with a wider aisle, or lower counter tops.

I'm 5 foot 2, and I'm yet to drive a car where the sun visor is adequate, even with the seat pumped up to the highest level

Maybe to use them, not to stand up from using them. Try standing up from that if you have mobility issues or have had a hip replacement. See, what works for some doesn't work for others.

No, it doesn’t work for others - and if your problem was that th standard height toilet is too tall for you and caused you problems as it does me (awkward position, legs going to sleep if there for a while) you’d a) just be used to it and b) wouldn’t have a choice in the matter.

You’re saying how difficult it would be for you if loos were the wrong height for you - so surely you understand what everyone here is saying.

Weetabix you seem strangely determined to tell PPs that they don’t have the problems they say they have, and imply we are all conspiracy theorists. Why is this?

Sometimes the obsession with adult male issues can work in the favour of others. For example, many years ago some company decided to try and develop a treatment for male baldness. It worked brilliantly but it caused diabetes. A very clever person realised it could be used to treat children born with hyperinsulinism, a rare condition that is essentially the opposite of T1 diabetes. Before that there was no medication available. Without that medicine my son may well have died, or at least have severe brain damage (and he’d also have a lot less hair!). No one was trying to develop a treatment for this rare condition that was so dangerous for newborn babies but there was enough money in baldness for them to make this happy discovery.

So this is very like what happened with Viagra and period pain, except that even with the knowledge that it worked they decided it wasn’t worth researching further. A man who can’t get an erection can walk into a pharmacy today and buy 4 viagra for £20. I can’t go in there and buy it for period pain, because it’s not licensed for that.

Period pain should be a highly lucrative market, given women’s spending power, the amount of women who see doctors about menstrual pain, the number of women with endometriosis and adenomyosis who suffer terribly. If something on the market could actually get rid of severe period pain, I believe that company would make a fortune - but they didn’t see the value in it, probably because everyone around that table was likely male.

You’re saying how difficult it would be for you if loos were the wrong height for you - so surely you understand what everyone here is saying.

They are the wrong height for me. They are too low for me to stand up from easily.

My point is that, as you say, they are standard. They work for the majority. For some they are too tall, for some too small. That's the problem with "standard" surely? That the majority will be ok but that outliers will have to compromise.

I'm sure some of you struggle with the design of everyday objects. I struggle with lots of things due to disability. If I can make adaptations or buy aids to help me then I do. What I don't accept is that much of what is being said is due to male designers simply not considering women.

If something on the market could actually get rid of severe period pain, I believe that company would make a fortune - but they didn’t see the value in it, probably because everyone around that table was likely male.

How likely is this to be the reason? You really believe that a pharmaceutical company employs only men in these roles? I just don't believe it. Given that drug companies tend to seek out any opportunity to medicalise entirely benign conditions I would think that they would jump at the chance to market a drug for period pain, especially if that drug already exists. So, why haven't they continued with the research on viagra?

Having a quick look at the viagra study it seems that it was reported in 2013 and only studied 25 women. Pessaries were used as oral tablets caused too many side effects.

Obviously a sample of 25 is too small to draw any conclusions from so I wonder why further studies haven't been conducted in the 5 years since?

I explained to Pine about the work chair because due to H&S companies do have a legal obligation to provide a chair that fits. Full time sitting in an office chair that doesn't fit isn't ok. Sitting on a toilet several times a day when I can only just touch the floor is annoying, have an unsuitable work station is painful and adds to me disability issues.

I never expect "standard" to work for me, however "standard" always works for my 6'4" DH with exception of passenger seats in some cars and public transport seating. He is 7" taller than the average UK man I am only 5" shorter than the average UK woman, if everything was aimed at 5'7" the average of the population my life would be easier.

Because there are very few drugs developed for female health issues exclusively. The funding isn’t there. Often women are given drugs tested on men that are either then found to be effective for female health issues, or is given without a thought to whether it will affect women differently than men.

Look at pelvic mesh - how long have women been complaining about the lifelong effects caused by having that stuff inserted into their bodies? Has there been sufficient research? Has it been banned? Look at the online movement of women talking about the effects of Lupron and other GnrH analogs on their bodies, or of tubal ligation. This would not be happening if it were mostly men receiving these things (although some men do receive GnrH analogs for prostate cancer, it’s mostly women who receive it, and some children for precocious puberty).

Do i believe that the senior staff making decisions at Pfizer (I think?) over 20 years ago were all men? Yes, I believe that’s very likely indeed.

RandomMess

I do understand. I've been waiting 10 months for a custom built chair at work. I get it. Our chairs can be adjusted but still aren't suitable for me because of my disability. But that's because I have specific needs. Most other people don't have the same needs so it would be wrong of me to demand that all chairs are changed to suit me.

My husband and son are both over 6 foot. They would certainly disagree that everything is designed to fit men - aeroplane seats, theatre seats, work tops, opening small, fiddly packaging, some doorways, treads on many stair cases... Just some of the ways that being tall causes difficulty. Surely if men are designed for then everything would suit taller people?

The study you looked up was an independent study done five years ago - the company that produces Viagra were aware of this many years when the product was in initial testing and didn’t pursue it.

I recently read an article about plane seats and how they were trying to squeeze more in. The designer confidently saying that the smaller legroom would work just fine was a 5’7” man. What is wrong with these people, what design schools are they going to that teach them to only design to their own needs.

I thought that was a really thought provoking piece. I consider myself a feminist and even for me it was a wtf moment.

Then the comments section was 90% males who just did not get it. Basically it is all women’s fault that the world is designed around men. And this is the fucking Guardian, supposedly home of the liberal, feminist man. The best of them. Absolutely shocking and so so disappointing.

I'm a man and I can well believe that the world has been designed (generally) by men, for men. I'm quite surprised that Weetabix is struggling with the idea.

My point is that, as you say, they are standard. They work for the majority. For some they are too tall, for some too small. That's the problem with "standard" surely? That the majority will be ok but that outliers will have to compromise.

The problem is that many things work for the majority of men, which is not the same thing as 'the majority'.

Tinkly not surprised given the women here who are trying to deny that this is a thing