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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the onus lies with my neighbour to get her toddler into an acceptable routine?

82 replies

makingmiracles · 22/02/2019 06:28

So we live in a flat, upstairs. We’re very conscious of that as lived her over a decade, don’t play music, have carpet throughout, don’t have pets etc. Only use hoover and washing machine during normal waking hours eg 8-7pm. I can appreciate that upstairs flats can be noisy but we try our best not to be deliberately noisy in any way, from 10pm-7am most days, everyone is asleep, so no noise.

Downstairs in complaining about noise, but her toddler dd is sleeping a lot of the daytime and waking around midnight and doesn’t go back to sleep till 5-7am. Consequently, understandably, my neighbour and daughter are then wanting to sleep in the daytime when my household is up and about, walking around and making low level noise, so she is getting irate about not being able to because of our noise, she has contacted the council and they have written us a letter!

Aibu to think that actually her dd is no longer a newborn who can’t distinguish day/night and that she needs to work much harder on getting her dd into a normal sleep pattern?
At the moment she is not doing anything to try and help herself or recitify it-when her dd wakes, she turns on her bedroom light, takes her into her living room and watches tv/starts doing housework, so imo her daughter obviously thinks it’s ok to be waking as mummy lets her watch tv and eat etc.

I know not all children are easy, I’ve been very lucky with mine, but surely most people would have or try to get their 2yr old into a normal day/night pattern by now?

OP posts:
DistressedAndWorried7845 · 22/02/2019 07:30

Our noise that she is complaining about is our toddler running about, 2.5yr old( just recently started having mammoth throw-yourself-on-the-floor-screaming tantrums) and general talking, walking about etc

So... the noise of alive human beings then? She’s insane.

AuntieCJ · 22/02/2019 07:35

Normally the council just say it's normal household noise. Are you sure it isn't excessive? Write to them and suggest they record the so-called noise nuisance.

MissMooMoo · 22/02/2019 07:38

When I read the title I was worried this was going to be about my toddler who will be 2 in a few months.
He goes to bed between 7-8 but always wakes and cries once in the night, I have been waiting for my neighbours to complain to me about it for months now but I have tried lots of things with no solutions and have just come to accept he is a light sleeper for now.

This however is totally different and YANBU at all. Has she actually said anything to you? Can you ask her what kind of noise she thinks is unacceptable?
I would carry on with your normal daily tasks and tell the council they are more than welcome to come monitor the situation.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 22/02/2019 07:39

I can't believe the council took it that seriously!!

She's mad to think that your life should go on hold because her DD won't sleep at night, that's just not an option. Yes her DD might be a handful, might have issues or not - but that is not YOUR problem at all and you shouldn't have to change your whole life pattern just because she's having troubles with her.

I do hope the Council come round, I really do. While you're at it, you can get them to have a word with your other upstairs neighbours, eh?

ApolloandDaphne · 22/02/2019 07:43

What does she want you to do? No one can live silently all day. Not with a toddler anyway.

CripsSandwiches · 22/02/2019 07:46

It depends what you're doing. If you're not making more than a normal amount of daytime noise and you've made efforts to minimise it (Eg not having the TV loud not banging about etc) then of course YANBU. You can't be expected not to use your home during the day because of her strangers schedule.

CripsSandwiches · 22/02/2019 07:47

I wouldn't worry about the council, they do nothing even when people are bring obnoxiously loud, normal family noise they'll send letters and nothing more.

makingmiracles · 22/02/2019 07:50

Let’s take this morning as an example, I’ve been up since 6am, just sat quietly on mn, all the children are still asleep, I will wake the 2.5yr old at around 8 otherwise her routine gets all messed up, she’ll sit watching morning tv for an hour whilst I do her breakfast etc.
Meanwhile, next door upstairs have also been awake since around 6am as I could hear them talking faintly when I got up, it’s now 7.45am and they have been rowing loudly since 7.20am!

They are not so loud that it bothers me to be honest, but as my neighbour downstairs is complaining about me I almost feel like I need to report upstairs neighbours noise as I’m convinced half the time it’s their noise that my downstairs neighbour is thinking is me!!

OP posts:
RedWineIsFabulous · 22/02/2019 07:53

It sounds an absolute nightmare tbh. Poor you.
I would absolutely hate this as I’m
noise sensitivie and having decent neighbours is everything to me.

Complain 100% to the relevant authority and keep complaining.

Keep a log of things that go on.

You have my utmost sympathy. That’s just horrid.

Off topic, but my neighbours are currently selling and I am freaking who is going to end up in there. DH tells me to not stress but I can’t help it as noise just makes me unwell, especially at unsociable hours.

Some people really are so selfish and entitled. It’s disgusting.

But there are laws and legislations in place hence why you must keep complaining.

Good luck

RestingBitchFaced · 22/02/2019 08:07

You only take your toddler out twice a week?

AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo · 22/02/2019 08:08

I'd probably request (via the council - nice non-aggressive letter saying that you have always been concerned to be a considerate neighbour and you can't understand the complaint but you are keen to work with them and her to find the source of the problem) that she keep a noise diary with timings and noise levels (approximate or measured), say over a week. When the council see the timings they will know YANBU.

crispysausagerolls · 22/02/2019 08:09

As someone who has dealt with a neighbour who was deeply unreasonable re our noise level and had to go through really awful official channels, just go and speak to her. Ask what she expects you to do and make sure she knows the rowing etc isn’t you

LotsToThinkOf · 22/02/2019 08:37

Keep your own log of neighbour noise, record where you can then you have evidence to back up your defence. Neighbour sounds entitled, YANBU.

Juells · 22/02/2019 08:39

she has contacted the council and they have written us a letter!

Confused

CFs always seem to get people on their side, don't they?

makingmiracles · 22/02/2019 08:43

@restingbitchface, I’m not sure what you’re point is? Once to a toddler group, once to soft play. The rest of the week we out and about as and when doing shopping/errands etc or at home doing housework

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 22/02/2019 08:43

Have you tried talking to her?

That might clear up whether she is hearing the other upstairs neighbour rather than or as well as you.

makingmiracles · 22/02/2019 08:46

Yes I have tried, as she is fairly nocturnal at the moment it can be hard and therefor have to really rely on messaging her instead of talking face to face.
She has posted already this morning on fb about being very annoyed. I simply commented underneath that I hope she’s ware of who is causing the noise as at that point everyone except me in my house was still asleep!

OP posts:
starfishmummy · 22/02/2019 08:54

I don't think the council would do anything about normal household noises during the general waking day. I wonder what she said to them? Or does she think the noises the other do at make are coming from you?

TedAndLola · 22/02/2019 08:59

Something doesn't add up here. Anyone with shitty neighbours will know how hard it is to get the council to take action, even as small as writing a letter. I wonder if your perception of the noise you make is accurate.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 22/02/2019 09:28

I wonder if she failed to mention the times and that the noises you make are during daytime, and that's why the council sent a letter.

BollocksToBrexit · 22/02/2019 09:36

The council won't be interested in any of the noise you or your other neighbours make. They won't do anything about normal day to day noise, kids playing, toddlers tantruming, tv or music at a reasonable level, talking, occasion arguing etc.

They would only take action for noise beyond the norm. Stereo on full blast 24/7, drilling at 2.00 am, screaming rows morning noon and night etc.

The problem with neighbours like yours is that they think they get to have no noise and that's why they're complaining. They want silence. They won't get it and the council won't expect it from other tenants.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 22/02/2019 09:37

Start keeping a log/diary of any noise disturbance for just in case

PhilomenaButterfly · 22/02/2019 10:10

I think toddlers should be allowed to follow their natural sleep pattern, but I wouldn't be expecting the neighbours to keep the noise down during the day.

Nesssie · 22/02/2019 10:20

The council won't be interested in any of the noise you or your other neighbours make. They won't do anything about normal day to day noise, kids playing, toddlers tantruming, tv or music at a reasonable level, talking, occasion arguing etc.

They would only take action for noise beyond the norm. Stereo on full blast 24/7, drilling at 2.00 am, screaming rows morning noon and night etc.

^This. They have to investigate every complaint that comes in, no matter how ridiculous it is. There is a set procedure they have to follow.
Things they will consider include:
• The law is based on the right of owners/occupiers to enjoy their property, without materially interfering with the rights of neighbouring owners/occupiers in the enjoyment of their property.
• The interference complained of must be unreasonable and substantial; the law implies a degree of give and take between neighbours – between the right of one occupier to use his land as he likes and the right of the neighbour to live in peace.
• Mere annoyance is not enough to be a nuisance, and nor do questions of personal taste come into it.
• The nuisance assessment is based on the opinions and the effect it would have on the ordinary reasonable person. We must ignore undue sensitivities, such as ill health, shift work or vulnerability or sleeping during the day because their child keeps them up at night
• The assessment of nuisance is not about mere volume, it is also concerned with the nature, frequency, and duration of the nuisance.

PookieDo · 22/02/2019 10:30

Is there any chance she’s doing this to strengthen a case to be moved from the flat? It’s possible.

Having just moved from a very similar flat set up as yours - 2 up 2 down I totally can picture this situation. My downstairs had a baby who cried all night and they towed all evening whilst I am aware they are all still asleep whilst I am creeping around at 7am trying to get ready for work - and the opposite neighbours gave no fucks about noise and it probably was impossible to tell who was making it.

Keep your own diary about the opposite neighbours too.

I can’t imagine they will find much of an issue with you if it’s as you describe but prob going to lead to hostile neighbour relations