To be torn about this (MIL)

[ClarabellaCTL]

My DH and MIL don’t get on well. She is narcissistic and PA, we both tolerate her for the sake of our kids and their relationship with her. She’s been making snide digs at my DH (to me) the last few times we’ve seen her. Eg, DH was taking our boya away for a few days without me as I had to work and he had some leave. I mentioned it to her and she said ‘Will he be able to cope with them’? Hugely insulting I thought, he’s their father and a wonderful hands-on Daddy. I snapped at her to this effect and she chuckled as if she’d only been joking. Tonight she is here (for the weekend) and I’m going away with my friends. She asked me ‘what will be made for dinner tomorrow when you’re not here? A boiled egg?’ I just looked at her and said ‘I’m sure DH will feed everyone adequately’ and she laughed and said ‘oh no, maybe it will be pizza’. At which point I just walked away before I caused an argument. I know if I told DH the things she says he’d be really hurt and angry, so I keep it to myself but at the same time I don’t like hiding it from him IYKWIM? It’s petty things I know, but she’s doing it on purpose and I don’t want to be the one to cause trouble by bringing it up.

Well in the case of NPD, diagnosing the person with the PD indirectly, from the abusive behaviours described by the victim.

Bit like initially diagnosing a parent with Munchausen-by-Proxy from the child’s symptoms.

So in my case, two Psychologists telling me my C-PTSD is due to abuse by a parent who exhibits all the signs of having NPD and Sociopathy. There will be no stats and nothing on my parent’s medical record because their NPD and pathological lies make them very credible and they would no doubt convince a GP that they are a perfect parent with a troublesome child. So they wouldn’t be referred on to someone who would be able to diagnose them in person.

Not sure how much sense that makes; my coffee hasn’t kicked in yet!

Sounds like chit chat to me. She's trying to have a friendly conversation. What is wrong with you that you take it all so personally?

My MIL often says things like this. She means it as a joke and is really just showing me that she sees how much I do for my family. No one finds it offensive.

Obviously you know best how it comes across because you know your MIL, but I really wouldn't dismiss the idea that she's just joking around and it's not landing with you.

Thanks for all your responses. I know a few of you, quite fairly, doubt the extent of her behaviour. There is a long and detailed back story and to be quite honest I can't be bothered writing war and peace about it. Suffice to say you can trust me that there is a history here. I'm interested in the list of criteria for NPD that someone posted. She ticks a lot of those boxes. Anyway, for now I have decided to ignore it. The last thing I want to do is cause any more upset or trouble, there's been enough of that between DH and MIL over the years.

@plainspeakingstraightalking thank you for this:
The DSM-5 indicates that persons with NPD usually display some or all of the following symptoms, typically without the commensurate qualities or accomplishments:[6][9]

• Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from other people YES
• Fixation on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc. NO
• Self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions YES
• Need for continual admiration from others NO
• Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others YES
• Exploitation of others to achieve personal gain NO
• Unwillingness to empathize with the feelings, wishes, and needs of other people HELL YES
• Intense envy of others, and the belief that others are equally envious of them YES
• Pompous and arrogant demeanor YES

You've had some brilliant advice on here, just wanted to say that you're not alone! My Dad is the King of making a horrible comment, then immediately backtracking (it's just a joke) and going on the attack (of course I was joking, you don't have a sense of humour, you're too sensitive). It's exhausting and you have my sympathy.

She certainly sounds as if she has narcissistic traits. Fortunately she doesn’t seem to have the full blown personality disorder but even so, she sounds difficult.

Have you ever heard of grey rock? It can be incredibly useful for dealing with difficult/PA/narc tendencies. You basically make yourselves as interesting and as deaf as a rock. Pretend you can’t hear or understand her digs and jibes, be selectively deaf and boringly polite. Takes away their satisfaction that they get from winding you up and spoils the game. Might be worth trying.

I'm wondering why you have her over at all? If she and Dh don't get on and she is a narcissist then why bother? Why would you want such a person having any influence over your children?

@Ihateunclejamie I have seen grey rock mentioned on here a few times and it's definitely worth a try. I guess it takes some discipline to stick to it, I just have to try to remember it in the moment!

@Drum2018 I guess because she is family, the kids adore her. She's the only Gran they have as both my parents are dead. In terms of influence over the kids she has very little, if any. We don't allow her to babysit or have the kids on her own, there is always one of us there. She also lives several hours away so the visits are infrequent, perhaps every 2 months she comes for a couple of days.

Yes, you do have to take a breath and remember - tricky sometimes when you’re cross! Good luck.

I'm not sure that anything good ever comes with enduring a relationship "for the sake of our kids". Kids aren't stupid, they know when things aren't good and pretending otherwise makes them doubt themselves in relationships.

The DSM-5 indicates that persons with NPD usually display some or all of the following symptoms, typically without the commensurate qualities or accomplishments:[6][9].....etc...

My stepmother ticks every single one of those boxes. Because of her my brother and I only have telephone contact with our dad and see him once every few years. I’ve never seen that list before so it was an eye opener.

Literally no idea why you maintain a relationship with her 'for the sake of your DCs'.

Your husband dislikes his own mother. Low contact and being completely oblivious to her existence comments would be my plan.

@poglets is it not worth the children having a relationship with extended family though? DH and I are both only children so our family circle is very small. The kids love her. Also, she had a sh*tty upbringing so I can kind of understand why she is the way she is (although you'd think by her age she might have realised it herself and done something to address her behaviour). We do keep her at arms length as much as possible but to go NC I think would be cruel to the kids and to her. Maybe I'm too soft!

What about the impact on the husband? His is the primary relationship. What about the effect on the marriage of the husband and wife?

I think if you can grey rock a narcissist and rise above it then low contact is fine. If not, you cut an abuser out.

And children grow up. They become adults. There is no reason to think the grandmother won't start on the children. She did (and still does) it to her own child.

@ScatteredMama82

I realize now you are the OP with a name change.

Doesn't this upset your husband? He really needs to set the tone for their relationship and you need to set out what you are willing to accept.

@poglets all you say is true. DH is the one who would choose to go NC and if he did I would support him as it is HIS relationship to maintain, not mine.

So let's get this straight. She constantly undermines her son, is mean to him and about him.

Yet you want to encourage a relationship between your children and her. Do you really think you should be encouraging a relationship between your children and someone who is that horrid to their father? Really???!!!

Stop it. You have made the mistake of believing that a relationship between grandchild and grandparent is something that SHOULD happen and is in the best interests of your DC. It is NOT in their best interests to have a relationship with someone who undermines their father. She will do everything in her power to drive a wedge between your DC and their father. Take this power away from her NOW!

She is narcissistic and PA, we both tolerate her for the sake of our kids and their relationship with her.

Was about to pick this out but I see others have made the point. Ehlana has summed it up pretty well.

It’s a dig at you too btw - she’s trying to say that 1) DH isn’t capable of taking care of the kids but also that 2) as the mother, you should be stepping in. Passive aggressive sexism at its best.

When my exH had a cold once, my exMIL said it’s because I don’t take good enough care of him. The mind boggles.

@Ehlanaofelenia @DanglyBangly

Thank you. I can't tell my DH to cut off his own mother though! If he wants to then fine, I will help him but he doesn't want that. Rightly or wrongly, she's still his Mum and he doesn't want to go NC. As I see it all I can do is damage limitation, making sure her influence on the kids is managed (e.g I'm the one who insisted she doesn't get to babysit).

Why on earth would you encourage, or even facilitate, a relationship with someone like this? Ultimately she is going to do them harm

@ScatteredMama Exactly. All you can do is protect your dcs from hearing these digs and from unsupervised time alone with MIL.

Grey rock works fine if the DCs aren’t within earshot.

If she’s shitty about DH in front of them though, politely rebuff her.

“Well MIL, whatever DH cooks for dinner will be lovely as he’s an excellent cook”.

And “Of COURSE DH will cope with the DCs while I’m away; he’s such a wonderful Father.”

Unfailingly civil, sweet smile and if she says she was “only joking”, give a tinkly laugh and say “Oh, right! Yes, I thought you must have been” (with optional “because I’m positive you wouldn’t be trying to belittle DH to me or in front of the DCs”. (Side eye)...

Has she got a sense of humour you don't get? She might just be bantering?

How does DH feel OP? Reason I ask is because my DB and DF have this running "changer is so useless" joke where they always imply I'll be rubbish at completing any small task that crops up. It was born out of the fact I never learnt to drive and am generally a bit more laissez faire than my anal uptight family. Even basic shit like my occasionally missing a train or not having a fixed dinner time (they all eat at 7.30 on the dot) causes eyerolls and sighs. But it hurts me a lot - I'm a functioning adult not a stupid child.

Long winded way of saying one persons bantz is another's pet peeve!

But if he's not bothered and laughs along I think you just have to suck it up.