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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how to get your child to be sensible/calm or make better choices????

28 replies

beckieperk · 21/02/2019 15:45

My 7 year old boy has always been a handful, but can be loving, caring and sweet too. We had another baby December 2017 and he took well to being a big brother, however we are still having issues with his behaviour.
He very rarely listens to instructions, ie "put your pyjamas on and put your clothes in the basket." No movement. So I ask again. Repeat another 3 or 4 times before anything happens.....at which point I'm shouting. He's getting angry at me for repeating myself (!!!) and we end up falling out. This can happen about 5 times a day over different tasks. Particular favourites at the moment, not brushing teeth, eating breakfast or getting off his switch!
When he is "playing" with his baby brother he grabs him, restricts his movements, which makes the baby frustrated and he ends up crying. I tell him to stop this about 10 times a day too.
Recently had parents evening and his teacher said he's very easily distracted and loses focus quickly. This often leads to distracting his peers.
Is this normal? Should I approach in a different way? Any tips? Will he grow out if it?? Should I worry about ADHD or similar??
Am I being unreasonable??

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NoWayNoHow · 21/02/2019 15:57

This sounds very like my DS - he's 11, and this type of behaviour has been a running theme throughout his childhood, but was particularly noticable when he hit Y3 (nearly 8yo). He was always in trouble at school for not listening, not trying hard, not focusing, easily distracted.

At home, he was like your DS - never, ever, ever listening to anything first or second or even fifth time.

Eventually school recommended getting him assessed for ADHD (after 3 years of labelling him a "trouble maker", but that's another story) and he was diagnosed in June. They assess 12 or 13 different markers, and he was in the completely normal range for 6 or 7 of them, but off the charts for the other areas.

We started medication with him in November, and we're still finessing the dosage, but it has made such a huge difference. We can finally see the "true" him shining through - he listens, he's far less defiant, his school work has improved a huge amount, but he's still the funny, bubbly, bouncy boy he's always been.

Of course, just because my DS's behaviour mimics your doesn't mean an armchair diagnosis of ADHD, but it's worth considering an assessment if you're at all concerned. Once you have the diagnosis, the time to be seen by CAMHS isn't too long - it's the wait for getting assessed in the first place which can take months and months. If you can afford to, private pediatricians can assess to.

beckieperk · 21/02/2019 16:33

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate it.
Do you know what age is the youngest they would diagnose?? Would consider going private.

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Singlebutmarried · 21/02/2019 16:37

Our DD (nearly 8) is a handful at the moment.

We’ve been recommended the book ‘my chimp and me’ (or similar)

We’ve started reading through it together and there are various activities to do together.

It’s an interesting read.

C1rrus · 21/02/2019 16:41

I recommend the “Talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk” book. If you end up shouting at him, I can sympathise with why he ignores you though.

You need to communicate like, “as soon as you have your pyjamas on we will be ready to do [something motivating].

PomBearWithAnOFRS · 21/02/2019 16:43

One thing at a time. So "put your pyjamas on please" then once they're on, "put your clothes in the basket please"

Aquamarine1029 · 21/02/2019 16:45

What are the consequences for this behaviour? Repeating yourself until you end up shouting is pointless. He needs proper discipline.

NoWayNoHow · 21/02/2019 16:45

I'm not sure what the minimum age would be, but I wouldn't leave it to DS's age/Y5 as it was really tricky timing in terms of trying to get everything done and dusted before 11+, as the effect on his school work was quite profund so needed a really huge turnaround (he has huge difficulties with processing information to get it from his head onto paper)

justmyview · 21/02/2019 16:47

Shouting at him is really unhelpful

I agree with a PP that one instruction at a time is better

I also think a five-minute warning is helpful e.g. "Let's watch TV for another five minutes and then get you pyjamas on". This is better than "pyjamas now" with no prior notice

Solasum · 21/02/2019 16:52

Another recommendation for ‘how to talk so kids will listen’. There is a version for younger children too. It doesn’t come very naturally to me ‘I can see some feet which aren’t ready to go out’ for example, but it does work for my DS. He plays up most when he doesn’t know what is going on so feels he has no control. I find telling him in advance what will happen makes things much smoother ‘in five minutes it will be bath time’.

Solasum · 21/02/2019 16:54

Re the teeth, Id be very blunt and tell him that if he doesn’t look after them they will be rotten/fall out etc.

And I would also save the switch as a treat for the end of the day only, so he only gets to go on it at the end of the day if the day has gone well, and can only use it for a set amount of time, the same everyday

weebarra · 21/02/2019 16:56

It's really tough. My DS1 was diagnosed with ADHD in June, still waiting for a psychiatrist appointment to discuss medication.
I've done several parenting courses, and read both How to talk...and the chimp book - hugely helpful. DS1 is 11.
I'm not sure about your son but consequences don't really help because his behaviour is so unconscious and impulsive that he just can't think "oh, if I do that/don't do that, I'll get a consequence", and maybe that sounds like an excuse.
We also have a visual timetable and tick list - although sometimes I think he needs a chart to remember his chart!

BertieBotts · 21/02/2019 17:09

Another one with an ADHD child who is very similar to your description - it is slightly better (he is ten now) but defo when younger he was very like that.

We don't live in the UK so I can't help with diagnosis info. But look at Russell Barkley's talks on youtube.

BertieBotts · 21/02/2019 17:14

Actually don't look at the Barkley stuff yet - it's excellent but it's very in depth so better to learn the basics first and dive in there when you're at the stage of wanting to know more. I'm going through your post and will add some tips (just wanted to say that first). I have ADHD too so I jump around a bit - sorry.

beckieperk · 21/02/2019 19:27

Tried a lot of these already. He has a countdown, time limit for every task pretty much, especially things like getting ready for school. Which is getting a little better.
His behaviour does have consequences, for example I take away his screen time for 2 days....or whatever depending on what he's done. The other day he had a 2 day ban for shouting that he hates me after one of our little to do's.
I'm hoping its an age thing, but he's distracted and not listening to instructions everywhere, karate, swimming, school and beavers. I get similar feedback...when I ask. He's not naughty, as such, he just doesn't listen. Which is very frustrating.
This half term I metaphorically split his brain in 2 and we have discussed him using the sensible side, not the silly side. I ask him to make a choice, and think about his choices. It had little effect.
Also he has been dubbed the class clown. He is very funny and has an awesome sense of humour, he just cant filter when to use it.
2 days of no shouting so far.....even when he whacked me in the eye as he was dancing around the kitchen instead of eating his dinner! It really hurt. GrinJoy!! I appreciate it was an accident.

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beckieperk · 21/02/2019 19:32

Just re-read your post Weebarra and that's exactly him, I genuinely dont think punishments make a difference, ie time out, 7 minutes, back in the room for 30 secs and does the same again....
His behaviour is very impulsive. Or so it seems. Thinking about it now he has said to me in the past, probably 2 years ago, that he tries to tell his brain to be good/what to do, but he can't control it!! Makes sense thinking about his behaviour.

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BertieBotts · 21/02/2019 19:54

(Sorry I was putting the baby to bed).

OK - so the first thing is that screen time is a big problem for ADHD children. It holds their attention extremely well because of the way most apps and devices are designed and tends to cause them to go into "hyperfocus" - where they almost blot everything else out around them, often for hours if unchecked, and in addition tend to act like an addict when they aren't on it - constantly seeking for more time or looking towards the next time they are allowed.

So it's quite important to limit screen time and be very consistent/strict about it, as well as modelling and encouraging positive ways to use the screen type devices rather than letting him use it as a way to zone out/fill up his boredom (you might have already noticed this distinction). It's very important for children to have chance to develop their imagination/creativity and screen time doesn't do this when they are using it in that way.

A couple of things to note: Children with ADHD really struggle with transitions, that is changing from one activity or state to another, so stopping something to start a new task. You can help with this by seeing the process as a multi stage one. So for him for example if he has to stop playing the switch because it's dinner time, that's several things - 1. Recognising his current activity is ending. 2. detaching from current activity, 3. identifying new activity and transferring focus without getting sidetracked, 4. engaging with new activity.

When this is NOT managed, this looks like
1: ignoring you when you ask him to come off, whining that it's not fair, saying he just needs to finish this level/match/race.
2: Taking ages to actually stop. Claiming to be searching for a save point but "Oops" just missing one. Having a giant tantrum if you take it off him.
3: "Getting lost" on the way to the table. Spending ages washing his hands because he's playing with the water. Getting sidetracked by a magazine.
4: Fidgeting in seat, playing with food for ages before starting to eat, needing to get a drink, a napkin, a different fork, ketchup before he can start.

You can help by giving pre warnings that something is coming to an end. With screen time because it's so compelling it helps to get to know the games he likes and suggest a natural end-point, rather than using a time limit in minutes. When he's very engrossed in an activity he might literally not hear you so it helps to make sure you have his attention first - say his name, come down to his level, look him in the eye, put your hand on his shoulder, etc.

Praise when he does something straight away, rather than getting cross when he doesn't do something straight away. Allow a transition time between tasks and build this in so you don't get frustrated. Also - give him one instruction at a time. "Put your pyjamas on and clothes in the basket" is quite a lot - a neurotypical 7 year old might be able to handle that, but he would probably benefit from breaking it down into "Take off your clothes" "Put them in the basket" "Choose some pyjamas" "Put them on". Again praise if he does do it. If it helps, get him to pretend he's a robot and he has to take an input of one instruction at once. He'll probably like that game. You can also joke that he's malfunctioning if he does stray off task. And make sure to go down to his level and make eye contact for the first instruction, and bear in mind if it's a transition he'll need coaching away from the first activity first - if he's just arrived in his room after tooth brushing or whatever, you might be able to start with taking clothes off. It also helps if all tasks come in the same order every time, rather than having things change. Broken record technique until something happens - simply repeat instruction in boring, calm voice, refuse to engage with anything else.

For things like the baby that he repeatedly gets wrong - coaching/helicoptering. Essentially don't leave them unattended. When he is allowed to play with him supervise and again one step instructions of a suitable game - pick something that it doesn't matter if he gets too excited and/or where it is difficult to get too excited. Or get him to do his silly/excited things at a distance from the baby. Baby can watch big brother do a dance or a trick (babies love that kind of thing). Or side by side activities - get him to draw a line picture that the baby is allowed to "colour in", build a tower for the baby to knock over, and so on.

Pick your 5 biggest battles - work out what the opposite behaviour is that you want e.g.

Not listening = for task to be completed straight away without moaning/repeating

Manhandling the baby = to play in appropriate manner with baby

Then you can notice when it's happening right and praise. It also means you can look at the issue and see whether your expectations (the wanted behaviour) is reasonable and/or what you can do to make that easier and/or more appealing for him - so breaking tasks down and making sure you have his focus to begin with makes that one easy, and for baby playing perhaps he doesn't know how to play appropriately, what does that look like, can you show him etc.

Is all of this exhausting? YES, it definitely is, for him as well as you. So another thing is to set yourself low targets and easy wins, don't try to fight too many battles all at once. If you have a partner, tag team, because with a toddler as well it will be a lot. Push for diagnosis as therapy and medication might be appropriate. Unashamedly use after school activities (if he can cope with them/they can cope with him) as childcare to give yourself a break. Plenty of exercise and fresh air for him (it helps) and enough sleep and/or an enforced bedtime after which he does not get attention (he can read quietly, etc) and experiment with allowed amounts of screen time, but most ADHD families find very little is best. (This is my big failing ATM).

Hope this is helpful - good luck.

beckieperk · 21/02/2019 20:10

Wow Bertiebots that's amazing. Thank you. I think I might try and get a doctors appointment. But I'm unsure how helpful that will be. I'm going to read this all again....and again....until it sinks in. Flowers

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Helix1244 · 21/02/2019 20:27

How was he when younger as i believe they show signs before 5yo.
My dd is similar. Berties point 3 i think is exactly as she will go off and do everything except what was asked.
But can do it correctly if motivation is high enough.

beckieperk · 21/02/2019 20:45

Pretty bad when younger.....I just assumed he'd get better with age. He never sits still. Didn't sleep properly till 3, never napped really. Just hard work.

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beckieperk · 21/02/2019 20:55

All 4 points are very familiar, but no 4 is a big one in our house. He cannot sit still!!

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BertieBotts · 21/02/2019 21:08

It's sort of a very condensed quick version - so ask if you have questions.

Something which really helped a lot when DS1 was 7 as well was a token economy system for managing both screen time and behaviour - it's a bit long to explain but essentially by doing that turning around the negative to the positive/replacement behaviour thing I identified what I wanted and then he could earn tokens which could be exchanged for X amount of screen time the following day. I only ever doled them out at bedtime so it took the back and forth arguing out of the moment.

BertieBotts · 21/02/2019 21:11

Yes the restlessness/distraction will typically be present throughout most tasks as well even once it's begun to be engaged with. But IME the transition part of it is that it's especially bad to begin with because it's like their brain gets comfy in the previous task, and then it feels all wrong and out of place in the new activity until it settles in.

weebarra · 21/02/2019 22:14

Bertie, those 4 stages absolutely nail it! Is that "just" from your experience or have you undertaken training that has helped?

justmyview · 22/02/2019 08:51

Mumsnet at its best. Take a bow BertieBotts

NoWayNoHow · 22/02/2019 10:54

That's so helpful *BertieBotts, really epitomises the difficulties we have with DS. We are trying and failing with him and screen time, and it's so easy to make excuses for why we're avoiding the battle (he's an only child, we both work full time, he has long days at school and needs "downtime", etc, etc, etc).

I love the sound of the tokens to exchange for screen time, too