AIBU to wonder how some people coped in former times?

[Flyingfish2019]

When they had 12 children, husband was working down the mines 16 hours a day, no transportation, no frozen/canned food, no fridge, constantly pregnant. No help if somebody suffered a disability (and I think this was likely working down the mines those days).

I just wondered because I have far less then 12 children and dh does not work down the mines and still we are often soooooo tired. Children keeping us awake play a role in this... how would we cope if there was 12 of them and we had to live under the conditions described above?

Well, poor health and no NHS or vaccinations meant children died, people suffered and life expectancy was really low. Chuck in a good war or two and maybe there just weren’t enough people around to complain. Ah the good old days...

Mojo also the stigma of a mental health condition was something to fear. :(

Also...another popular misconception is that women always stayed at home.

Actually in a lot of working class/poor families the woman needed to work and do all the chores.

My grandmother and great-grandmother both worked in the Potteries. They couldn't afford to live on one wage alone.

This thread is so sad and interesting.

Hey I've always wondered about outhouses. How on earth did someone manage to use it when suffering with arachnaphobia. I can't go into a shed without getting twitchy and I wildly scan all top corners for signs of cobwebs and the rest. How the hell did the poor buggers manage to sit down for a poo or manage their periods in their outhouses..?

Actually in a lot of working class/poor families the woman needed to work and do all the chores.

Yes, and for less pay than the men and doing the lowest status jobs like the washer women in the east end. Working like dogs, dangerous chemicals and not even enough money to survive on.

TanselleTooTall because your survival instinct is the strongest we have

You could choose to go behind a tree/in a field but there are dangers there too (not so much in this country)

@LoniceraJaponica

I think it was pretty common. My Mum was born in 1963 and they still had a tin bath when they were young with shared bath water and no central heating for quite some time in the Midlands.

I come from a mining area, though no miners in family, my mum was 1 of 7. Since losing her and seeing an older cousin more, I have found out info about my grandparents that mum didn’t pass on/I never asked (they died when I was v young but my older cousin knew them well).

I am becoming more fascinated by social history as I get older and realise how easy I have it compared to my ancestors (though it doesn’t seem that way at times!). Incidentally, despite having 7 kids, they only actually had 10 grandchildren, who range from late 70s to me, mid fifties, with two now deceased.

I often think about what my Grandma’s life must have been like compared to mine. At one stage my Grandad worked 15miles away, walking there on a Sunday, staying with his eldest daughter, walking back on Friday. Eeeek.

My GPS never owned a house, though all their kids did bar one, whose DH was disabled. My cousin and parents spent her early years living with our GPS.

Of my mum & siblings (born 1916-1930) and spouses, so 14 in all, only 3 ever learned to drive, including both my parents. My kids both passed and had cars at 17. If I suggested my DD walked the 13 miles to her job, she would look at me as if I had 2 heads. 😂😂

Of the 14, I think my parents were the only ones to ever travel outside Europe. Some of them never went outside UK. I have travelled to US, Canada, Oz, and hope to do more once retired. My older cousin is always on cruises all over the world. My kids are both looking at gap year travels in next year or 2.

One uncle went into Europe a lot, but never ventured to Canada where his wife had family. It wasn’t money, as when his bachelor son died recently, he left a huge sum of money, most of which we think came from my uncle!

Incidentally, my mum and one sibling made it to 90, so something in their early lives was right.

My dad was from S Ireland - his dad died young, his mum re married, he had to go out to work as an early teenager. The only time my GPS travelled over was for parents wedding I think. We always went to see them when we were kids.

On the life expectancy front, what shocks me to the core is the plunge in life expectancy from late 60s / early 70s to c.31 in certain African countries due to HIV and AIDS

DS got glasses at 2.5... I sometimes wonder how he'd have managed without them in an earlier time without the hv screening that picked him up. He'd probably have been labelled as stupid, at best.

My DGF was born on the stairs, because his mother was pegging out the washing while in labour and couldn't make it to the bedroom! His sister developed anorexia - there was no treatment available so she simply starved to death. You can't talk about going on a diet in front of Grandpa even now as he gets andious about it.

FiL was one of 12 or so children - they didn't get an indoor toilet until the seventies.

I don't think they coped well. Like pp's have said, it's more that they didn't have a choice.

My dm had ten children and didn't die young as some people say here would happen. She was physically well until late 70s and died in her 80s.Same as all our neighbours in rural lreland where 10 children was not unusual.
My dm always said her life was easier as she didn't have to rush out to work in the morning , come back late , cook dinner, activities etc. She said she wouldn't swop. I don't agree her life was easier of course. Couldn't do it myself but she never complained. We had a very active household but always loads of company and fun. We were never hungry and had full homecooked meals everyday while with mine l took short cuts, ate out etc. We were not rich by any means. My dm also helped neighbours, elderly parents, community stuff, church stuff and more. I can,'t manage any of that.
Life was not miserable at all. It was the 60s so there were recessions but we didn't notice., as children.
She didn't mind her gks on a regular basis but was always on hand to give back up.

My dad was the youngest of 13 and a twin. His mum died and his dad was an alcoholic. His twin was adopted out to a neighbour who was emigrating to Australia. No such thing as Christmas and food was scarce. You snatched what was on the table when it was there. My dad moved in with his big sister when he was 13 and she had moved out had a kid and married by the time she was 18.
Sisters all married local gangsters and they were a clan to be reckoned with.

My dad was considered posh when he met my mum and moved to the next town across. He managed to buy a house and learn to drive. Neither which any of his siblings managed. He was forever handing out cash here and there to his sisters.

Look at old photos. People look so hard and old for their age. We have one of my great grandmother and she looks to be in her 50's easily. She was actually 35 and only lived to her 50's in the end. Regarding the highlands, going back a few hundred years women lived appalling lives and often died young, exhausted from pregnancy, childbirth and work. The smoke in a black house caused lung disease and the diet was meagre. The men were actually healthier on average because they (obviously) didn't have babies but also got well fed (relatively and penis portions being a thing) and lots of fresh air and exercise working away from their homes. Apparently there were many middle aged men with very young wives, these men were considered a good catch as they were mature and established in life and the fact that they usually were widowers with children was just how it was. You took on the house and kids from your unfortunate predecessor in exchange for being provided for. It's interesting to study and even re enact but we really have it good now compared to even recent history.

From memories of my parents and grandparents - London slums and European farm poverty

There was multigenerational abuse - marital, alcohol, child sexual abuse, physical violence. They were v hungry at times and things we would find acceptable to eat eg dead family pets got eaten or killed so they could be eaten.

Older children looked after younger children - parenting was v different to today. However this did lead to lots of happy memories of wandering about in fields or bombsites. On the other hand, weak children died - and the others might not find this a bad thing. My Grandma and her sister told me they had a secret party when their brother died as to them, they had just seen him as sick and annoying and then they had more food and time with their mum

Living conditions were unstable - both families have stories of doing moonlit flits when unable to pay rents.

There clearly were mental health problems but these weren't identified as such - for example one relative came back from the war 'changed'. All that was ever said was that he was 'changed'. In reality he started beating his wife and now he would be diagnosed with PTSD.

There was no pressure for your children to do well at school because it was unaffordable/unavailable/no aspirations. You did what your parents did and that was that because you had to make money ASAP.

So no, I don't think the community spirit really was enough to make it all better. Some bits were good and others were utterly crap.

Sunday school was a time when all the kids were out of the house so that the parents had the privacy to create the next kid.

My grandad recalled the times when the kids argued over the crust of bread because that was more filling than a normal slice. He recalled mending shoes with bicycle tyres to prolong their life or stuffing the shoes with newspaper to keep the damp out. Grandma had life easier and recalls a good childhood being the apple of her father's eye. There were a lot less of them.

I suspect happiness for women very much depended on being able to meet basic needs financially and having a "good" husband. If you could afford to feed your kids and they were warm, then being in the same boat, lower expectations and the community spirit of good neighbors meant a far happier life than being beaten by your husband who drank all his wages. You'd just be grateful that you weren't in that position I suppose.
I guess like today, there were some happy people accepting of their lot, others less happy and others downright miserable. The really poor had no chance though.

There are people currently on this planet who deal with incredible hardships simply because they don’t have the choice, it’s called survival mode.

Back in the day having lots of kids was also a sort of insurance policy. It did mean that the older ones cared for the younger ones and but children boosted an the family income by them working in and out of the home.

People made do with what they have, the accessibility of credit has changed this some what but only in the short term.

Lots didn’t. Unless you were exceptionally lucky, many of your 12 children would die before their fifth birthday. If you didn’t have good genes, you’d had it. When your husband died (and he would quite likely be common law, living out of wedlock was extremely common because you simply couldn’t afford to marry), if you couldn’t find factory or labouring work it was homeworking, matchmaking, weaving, chainmaking etc. with all of your children participating from toddlers up, exposed to the horrendous diseases those activities resulted in, phossy jaw, arthritis, lung disorders etc. Just to add to the usual rickets, tb, malnutrition, syphillis (which babes were quite commonly born with), body and head lice, and so on .... and on. Prostitution was an option for you and your daughters (and sons in certain areas). If that all became too much for you (what’s wrong with you, slovenly wretch?) it was the workhouse, only in your parish of birth though so if that was 400 miles away and you had 5 children and no money, unlucky. If you made it there, and the board decided you were “deserving poor”, your older children from 5 would be taken from you for 12 hours each day, half day on Sunday, of work elsewhere in the institution or indentured to business miles away as apprentices (boys) once they were 9. The girls would be trained for service and sent at 12 wherever a place could be found, in Britain or the colonies (the board charitably provided a one way ticket in steerage). The average age of working class Victorians was 40, substantially lower in London, Manchester, Glasgow etc.
A PP mentioned Lark Rise ... which is how lots of us possibly imagine it, genteel poverty.
At the Manchester Museum there’s a shocking exhibit of a typical working class “house” of the time, looks like a large coal bunker to our modern eye, sewer running alongside, no furnishings to speak of, empty grate, earth floor with a pig snuffling about next to a figure sleeping on the earth covered in sacking, it’s chest heaving with a tuberculin grunt. Landlords would provide an outside privy and a water pump, usually serving upwards of 100 tenants. Well worth a visit, in a weird way 😬, it stays with you afterwards). If that all became too much for you, there was the asylum (where the wealthy could pay to come and look at you as an exhibit right up until the 19th C).

My mum conducted extensive family research and the most shocking thing to me was how quickly the mighty could fall because of the lack of any form of welfare state. In our own family, from landed gentry to poorhouse within 3 generations. Just poor decisions, bad luck and absolutely no safety net.
Today is far from perfect but after the family tree research, I really thank my lucky stars that I was born when I was (1963, when my mum was still bathing me in a butlers sink in an old pantry because there was no inside bathroom). Yes, I’m ancient. But all things considered, at least I’ve made it this far 😁

Look how many women were locked up in the records most of them were pnd related but they didn't have a name on it.
People died young, infant mortality was huge, older siblings stopped their education had to help at home or go to work.
The illness was rife. Often mother's had no choice on how many children they had marital rape was rife as well.

People had terrible lives. You only have to watch a few episodes of who do You think you are to see that only 2 generations back from mine people often ended up in work houses or being taken and sent to approved schools. No health care. My great grandmother lost brothers in the first war, lost a daughter to measles when she was 3 and was "carted off to the mental home" for a bit. She came back when my grandad was 11 (he had learned to cook and looked after his siblings). Her husband died and she worked as a day domsetic servant. Then it was time for WW2. She saw her son in law disappear for 6 years and looked after her 4 grandchildren and children in London throughout. Kept them fed through rationing. Carried on working as a cleaner till she was 80. Died in 1987when I was 19 and she was 97. Talk about grit. But she was candid about just how feckin hard it was. She had no truck with people talking about blitz spirit. She always said people had to fight for everything, keeping clothed and fed was a full time job. She absolutely loved the nhs and the state safety net and things like free glasses and dentist because she was 50 and a grandmother before it arrived and had experienced the alternative and the consequences.

This is a fascinating read too:

amazon.co.uk/Midwifes-Tale-History-Handywoman-Professional/dp/1781593744/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1550397369&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=the+midwifes+tale&dpPl=1&dpID=51G4OUSrJsL&ref=plSrch>]]

The Midwife's Tale gets across how hard life was but also how people depended far more on each other.

I don't think the blitz spirit was just propaganda. My dgm was evacuated after being bombed out of her first house with her first baby, expecting her second. I remember asking her how the hell she survived such a traumatic period in her life and she said that the strangers she was sent to were so very kind to her and remembered it as a very happy time. By the end of the war she had three under five and she said neighbours would club together to each donate some food for a child's birthday.

Her worst memories were of loneliness as very small child when she would be left alone all day on a Saturday when her mother went to work. She was given a penny to buy a sausage roll for lunch. She said she went to the library all afternoon until it closed then went home and sat in the dark until her mother came home at 7. She was only 4-7 years old.

Life got better when her dad returned from the WW1 paralyzed and they moved to be near her grandparents who helped with his care. He eventually learned to walk again. Church was an enormous part of her life. And family was everything. A good family was the difference between surviving or not. Friends whose family's weren't functional were pitied and sometimes more or less adopted.

My dgm was never really phazed by anything. Even diagnosis of her terminal illness was accepted without fuss by her when we were all in bits.

I am very interested in social history, particularly that of the working class poor, and will be buying the book reccomendations on this thread. Thank you to the posters who kindly listed them!

I do believe (along with an increasing amount of people affected by UC) that the present benefit system (UC) is designed to make us fear being in a postion to have to rely on it for any of the former benefits covered. It is a huge control tool with its endless check ins and appointments - some appointments are made while the UC recipient is actually at work at that time! some of these appointments are to ask why the claimant isn't seeking more hours or better paid work, when for a variety of reasons this simply isn't possible.

We have all heard or read about benefit sanctions (complete stoppage of all money) for spurious reasons, and the resulting massive increase in food bank referrals and homelessness. I fear the working and non working poor really are going back to early 20th century levels of poverty and deprivation via this cruel system.

Life was hard--people probably had different expectations though.

The dynamics of baby care and toddler care were massively different in the days when older children were not in the school system and were expected to take care of a lot of what we would consider to be childcare. Toddlers were placed in the care of older children, so you never ended up trying to take care of a toddler and a baby at the same time. And even with the baby, you always had a big sister or 10-year-old auntie to hand it off to. I have been in one or two parts of the world where you have this dynamic, and it makes things so much easier.

I read Engels “Condition of the Working Class in England” only recently. Got it very cheap from Amazon on kindle. I was totally gripped. There are facts and statistics in the book but the descriptions of what life was like then for the poor are really interesting and detailed and the anger of the author at the injustices heaped on working people is there on every page.

I thought there would be loads of political theory in it but it’s not like that at all. I found it very readable.

Once you’ve read it, it seems surprising that we didn’t have a revolution in this country.