AIBU to wonder how some people coped in former times?

[Flyingfish2019]

When they had 12 children, husband was working down the mines 16 hours a day, no transportation, no frozen/canned food, no fridge, constantly pregnant. No help if somebody suffered a disability (and I think this was likely working down the mines those days).

I just wondered because I have far less then 12 children and dh does not work down the mines and still we are often soooooo tired. Children keeping us awake play a role in this... how would we cope if there was 12 of them and we had to live under the conditions described above?

My Grandad was one of 13 and my Gran one of 10. All the children survived to a grand old age, as did their parents. Gran's Dad was a steam engine driver, and it took him many years to rise to that exalted position first doing all the menial tasks. Grandad's father was a glass blower.. again a menial task back then.

I know each and every child was expected to leave school as soon as possible and go to work to help support the family. The only exception was the eldest girl who stayed home to help with the younger ones and to eventually care for her elderly parents. Grandad became a merchant navy Captain (through sheer hard work and determination) and a large percentage of his wages were sent home to look after his parents, and after they had passed he was expected to look after the eldest girl. All the boys contributed in this fashion and all of them went to sea and advanced through the ranks so I imagine the elderly parents were never short of money.

There was no money wasted unless the family had the misfortune to have a father who drank to excess or gambled. There was nothing else to spend money on except vital requirements of food and clothing, much of which was home made and home grown. Consumerism didn't exist. Children didn't 'need' or want designer trainers/clothes. There was no TV and the resulting commercials designed to target and sell to youngsters.. toys, mobile phones etc etc.

Life was hard but it was simpler in many ways. Community spirit was great and people helped each other in may ways that wouldn't happen today.

I wouldn't want to live in those times, but would love to find a middle road between that and today's frantic consumer driven society.

I have a school photo taken of my great-grandmother. It’s absolutely heartbreaking. Most of the children look so poor and unhappy. They’re wearing their ‘best’ for the photo, and some are obviously in their mum’s clothes. They’re skinny, their faces look old and there are uncorrected squints, dark circles, etc. Not many are smiling.

It really does bring it home that childhood was a hard thing to survive in the past if you were working class.

I think these are all important thoughts and questions that need to be put out there because today we are far too materialistic and have become a bit shallow.

My grandmother didn’t cope with placenta praevia when carrying twins. It was undetectable and untreatable then and she (and her babies) died in childbirth. This was in 1926.

There wasn't much caring going on. When a child got to walking age they were largely left to fend for themselves or looked after by older siblings.
We live just around the corner from where dh's gg grandparents and relatives lived in the late 19th century. There were 9 children in a 2 bed terrace and the males in the family were mine workers or in related industries. All the children would have been out on the street all day.

We are so spoilt these days and don't fully appreciate what we have.

My childhood was tougher than some of my relatives for sure, no heating, ice inside windows, home grown, home cooked basic food.

My mum was one of 8, sent off to boarding school very young, older sister was already married and had kids before her younger bro was born, and sent to an institute as he had Downs Syndrome. (was called a mongol for as long as I knew )

Life was pretty tough and they were quite well off by some standards!

I often hear older generations comparing themselves to people in my generation 20s/30s saying they were 'made of hard stuff' 'your generation are weak' 'snowflakes' these people would have experienced real poverty and see that 'you have it easy' but turn a blind eye to the fact that the list above happens to children now.

My FIL is in his 70s, and by all accounts btw was poor and had a tough upbringing but he is amazed at the physical love and attention that DH lavishes on 1yo DS - he's even gone as far to say he is envious. I find that quite interesting - he doesn't subscribe to "things were better in my day" attitude.

I was doing my familytree and was surprised at how long a lot of them lived despite hard manual work. I think actually having a lot of kids in those days wasn’t the same as now. Kids were expected to help in the house and support the family from a young age. In many developing countries that’s how it works now. Kids are expected to contribute. Also they were not entertained, they just had to entertain each other.

A totally different generation, to busy coping with life than to be offended by everything!

I so miss that generation of my family, it broke my heart when I lost my last Great Uncle he was such an interesting and inspirational person, what he had seen and coped with is truly astonishing. My DS’s used to love visiting him and listening to him, we all miss him so much.

Commercialism was unheard of make do and mend was commonplace. Things weren’t just replaced, that could be repaired.

The need for perfection didn’t seem to exist in my family, there wasn’t the pressure of a perfect Christmas, valentines etc. But people were happier and more satisfied with life.

Maybe the longevity was down to not eating crap and lots of physical activity?

I always think of the post natal affect on their poor bodies after 12. Having to do all that work with shattered pelvic floors!

My mother's granny was born in 1876 and had 2 children with her first husband (he died when she was 21) and 9 with her second husband (one of those 9 died aged 1) so there were 10 surviving children. Her husband was a miner. One of the older daughters didn't marry so I expect she helped with the family . The second one married and had children at age 30. The third - my granny was first of the second marriage and she left for India on a ship in 1921 to be a nanny but only stayed until the next year as she got ill out there with malaria and then she married when she was about 29.

My mother's granny kept a pig in the garden. My mother used to sit with her cousin on the wall of the pig pen and throw mud at it. I believe there was a garden where things ilke potatoes and veg were grown. Miners' families actually were quite well fed not just from what they grew (and these were by the sea so there were a lot of sea foods, fish, etc. My mother always bought us crabs as children too and that kind of thing).

I expect people just get used to and make the best of what they have. I am sure they all helped each other within and outside the family and if they were religious the church often played a big part too. Eg even though my mothers granny was not a trained midwife she helped at births (as she had had so many and had only lost the one child - my mother's other granny had 9 children and only a few survived.

They (the women) were outside a lot and in the fresh air (not the miners of course however) and by the sea dn digging veg and load of physical labour and that kind of stuff although very hard work coupled with lots of veg and fish probably does keep you reasonably happy and healthy compared with some lifestyles today. She died (my mother's granny ) aged 66 ( which is not too bad for that kind of life ) of a brain haemorrhage. She was keen her children got on and did better ( one qualified as a nurse) although her two sons were miners.

Having many pregnancies meant that many women would be pregnant for a lot of their adult lives until menopause so periods for some would be far less common.

If an older sister got pregnant then her child may be added to the group of 'siblings'.

I read somewhere that a surprisingly high proportion of women would 'oblige' for a bit of extra cash so not all of the children were necessarily the father's.

Illnesses and conditions which are now considered readily treatable would have carried people off. Death in pregnancy, childbirth, postnatal period for what are now considered avoidable reasons would not have been uncommon.

My dhs mum had six kids but she just used to leave them too it. Consequently none of them exercise, apart from dh they struggle to hold down well paid jobs ir work at all. We parent differently now. It takes more energy and thought.

I wonder if you are one of my SIL. DH also one of 6, brought up in the 80s so not that long ago! But just left to it. They were never taken to the dentist for example or even taught to brush their teeth. PIL never went to parents evenings. They knew several of their children were bullied at school but didn't stop it. MIL provided food and shelter and FIL worked to bring in £ but that was all.

The Beveridge report that paved the way for the modern welfare state identified 5 “giant evils”: want, disease, ignorance, squalor and idleness. So I think it is fair to say life was not a barrel of laughs for the poor pre welfare state .

DH’s great-grandmother (born about 1880) was married at 19, had 16 children (15 of whom made it to adulthood) and died aged 42, 3 months after the youngest was born.

When she died her eldest daughter was newly married so took the 4 youngest children (all under 5) into her marital home and raised them herself, as well as having several children of her own.

It was a tough life.

I live next to Stamford Hill and when I take DS to the park or marshes we are surrounded by Jewish families with 7 or 8 children, all beautifully dressed and behaving themselves. Their mothers look calm and cheerful. I so want to ask them HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO THAT?!

Expectations were low

Of course people suffered with their mental health but people under horrendous circumstances will fight to survive and that survival instinct often takes over

Those who had complete breakdowns were sent to asylums or their family cared for them the best they could

For many life was hard and joys in life were few we expect to be happy now for the majority their simply wasn’t that expectation

Dying young and not being able to have many opportunities for paid work beyond domestic work or factory work.

Mum's weren't expected to do the insane amount of stuff that is pressured on mum's these days. Plus it was probably easier to discipline when smacking was acceptable/normal

My grandma had nine kids. My auntie was the oldest one and was bought up to be a skivvy. Next child died, then two more daughters, then next child died, then had four sons. Those older daughters were expected to do all the housework and look after the younger children. My grandma did nothing but rule over them often lashing out when they got things wrong. When they were old enough they went to work and gave their parents 90% of their money. They all escaped through marriage. I thought it was odd that those three daughters didn't cry at her funeral. Later I learned that life was bloody awful for them.

My grandfather was one of ten. They were all expected to sit on the stairs - one step each and be quiet whilst their mother rested in the afternoon. The oldest looked after the younger, etc. Kids played outside. They knew their neighbours so there was a support network. Women were all at home during the day so they chatted to each other in the street, hanging out the washing etc. Expectations were clear cut. You got married, knuckled down, did the wash on a Monday or whatever, kept your step clean, kept your home clean, and had the dinner on the table for when your husband got home. No one had any money so that wasn't the focus of life. Still, life expectancy was much lower and life was pretty grim. Plus many women suffered domestic abuse by men who were frustrated exhausted and ground down by hard jobs which often put their lives in danger. No wonder so many were excited by the prospect of war and travel.
People took pride in little things - clothes they sewed themselves, keeping things 'decent'.
Children also left home young and were self sufficient much more quickly and there were no teenage stroppy years.
Children didn't expect toys and there was not a lot of interaction between parents and children beyond basic functional needs and discipline. Kids looked to their siblings for companionship, or friends.
No after school activities and no driving kids around - most women couldn't drive or didn't own a car anyway. They shopped from the local shop on a daily basis. Some of the pressures we face weren't there for them. They didn't beat themselves up for being awful parents they thought providing a meal and a roof was enough.

My father was one of twelve born in 1913 in the West of Ireland. His siblings survived into adulthood but he’s is parents (like him) died quite young.
They had a smallholding so food was very simple but adequate. It was nutritional rather than a hobby. They kept chickens and pigs. They grew potatoes and some other veg.
They were well educated in a tiny, strict village school then onto the town school, if they passed the entrance.
The church was very much the authority, the social community and support system for those in need. The disabled were cared for either by family (as best they could) or in institutional care.
There were ‘simple folk’ with moderate learning difficulties who were just part of life.
Older children cared for babies. Children were allowed to take on greater responsibility from a much younger age. They walked the few miles to school without an adult. They did jobs around the house from about four (collecting wood and feeding animals).
No tv, no phones, no running water, no central heating, not many shops. My father had very happy memories of swimming in rivers in summer and playing tag. His family were, like many others, still reeling from famine so food was never wasted. Later on his older siblings were invited in the uprisings. We grew up on songs of the rebellion.

There definitely was mental ill health but it was locked away in great institutions (in U.K. as well). Unmarried mothers went to psychiatric hospitals here as well as in Ireland and many remained incarcerated until their deaths.

There was less ‘feeling low’ as people had to just get on with life. There were lower expectations of continuous happiness. There were fewer single mothers. There was more respect for the wisdom of the previous generation and consequently more family support. People moved away from home less.

This was my 2nd great grandmother in 1888. She went on to have two more children and all survived. She died aged 70.

It depends how far back you are going. But be careful looking at 'average' life expectancy. That takes into account all the children who died in infancy, so it would lower he average significantly. As now, if you made it past your 5th birthday, you could then normally expect a long ish life.

But people were happier and more satisfied with life.

Oh, malarkey! Plenty of people were utterly miserable and trapped, women stuck with wife-beating rapists and couldn't get divorced, clever young men and women forced to leave school at 14 to go to work at whatever was closest (or service) to help support the family and themselves, young women forced to give up babies, women unable to attend uni or hold certain jobs, systemic child abuse/sexism/racism. Oh, goodie!

My dad grew up poor in the 1930s, he laughs his arse off at all these silly nostalgic fools who reminisce about 'the good old days' when life truly sucked for great number of people and/or they weren't even there.

It's like all those people 'Well, in the 70s, we didn't . . . ' Well no shit you didn't have eat microwaved food or wash your clothes frequently, shit wasn't invented that made that easy to do. I was there. I saw a lot of very bad stuff happen in all that lovely 'playing out' and so-called freedom we had as kids.

Lots of people didn't cope, they died.