Domestic duties-Who is BU

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He works FT-own business, normal office hours, short commute. I work PT-3 days a week, normal office hours, short commute. We have 2 children under 3. I would prefer to do 4 days or FT but feel it’s too much nursery time for the kids so have sacrificed working more as he won’t reduce his hours.
I do all house admin, grocery shopping, laundry, presents, tidying, kids admin. He does 80% of nusery pick ups and drop offs and cooking. We both sort the kids out together in the mornings and evenings-ie getting dressed, baths and bedtime. We have equal leisure time.

I find my time at home mainly consists of picking up after everyone and walking around trying to figure out what needs replenishing, fixing, what appointments need attending, endless washing and putting away, dishes. I never sit down until after the kids are in bed which is when we both have down time.

Today i asked him if he could take over responsibility of say 1 category of stuff to be done ie online order of groceries once a week. He went mad saying he works FT and i work PT and no matter how much he does i never think it’s enough. So was i really being unreasonable asking him to take over the mental load of one thing rather than have full responsibility of making sure we have all the stuff we need in the house? It would be nice to for once open the fridge door and have milk in there rather than always be the one to replace it when it has finished.

well stop doing them if you don't think its fair - when he stops to play on the xbox, down tools and see what happens

I agree with PPs - if you're organising an online food shop, that's not downtime.

Having brought up 4 children with a husband who had 50's wife in his culture even when I went back to work, I had to smile at your post. After 43 years I have finally got him to cook 3 times a week and do a grocery shop once a week. Pick your battles and go for a small change first.

You are so not unreasonable. Mental load takes a heavy toll and he needs to pull his weight too.

@newmumwithquestions we have a dishwasher. I’m the only one that seems to load/unload it. We have a cleaner once a week. I am the only ine who makes sure the place is tidy for her and the cleaning supplies are available as well as her cash. I have to organise the cleaner to come when i can let her in.

I think you need to keep going on this as otherwise ten years from now you still run it all, and he’s far from being competent enough to take anything over from you as you’ve been in charge for too long . I can just imagine him - cooking adult meals and leaving all the washing up behind him, while you still cook for the children? I could live without that kind of help.

Pick your battles and go for a small change first
Or, state what’s fair and break up if he won’t live in an equal relationship? Why do we put up with this shit?

We sit down once a week with a calendar, diary and budget book.

We go through the week ahead plan the dinner and do the on line shopping as we go.

I find it has stopped the mental load all being on me. We split out jobs for the week and add reminders to our phones. It means we are both actively thinking about what is coming up and needed for the house.

I also now get the shopping delivered when we are both home so it doesn't all fall on me.

It has saved countless arguments and resentment and frustration. I was just doing things with out thinking or communicating with dh and getting angry that I was

I think the problem is he has made small changes to his life whilst you have made large one and is now using that as an excuse not to take on more.

You dont have equal downtime and you dont share out everything equally - the bit he does I think disguises the fact that actually he doesnt do very much of the overall load

You work 60% of what he does so I think you need to say to him one of two things needs to happen

Either everything (including the admin) is split 60/40 or he drops a day and you take on a day and everything is split 50/50

That is equal

@maybe83 I’m really liking the sound of that - is he a willing participant and who came up with the idea? I can imagine if I did that it would be like a meeting at work between manager and assistant, just me giving instructions. Even so might mean more was shared!

I don't think you're remotely unreasonable.

He didn't want to drop his hours to look after the children. So he didn't.
He works 5 days a week outside the home.

You dropped your hours to look after the children 2 days a week. You would have preferred not to have to do this.
You work 3 days a week outside the home and 2 days doing childcare.

All the rest of the domestic shitwork and life stuff still needs to get done by both of you.

It makes total sense for you to e.g. do laundry, as you can't do laundry from a desk at work.

It makes total sense for him to do the online shop, as he can do that from his desk at work.

Ditto booking dentist appointments, etc.

You could call his bluff and go back full time, and then it would be absolutely crystal clear that you have no more 'free' time than him to do any of this stuff, but that's the nuclear option.

But you should write it out in a chart sort of way in black and white, and then ask him for his solution. Dispassionately.

My DH also 'feels whatever he does is not enough'. That's because he'd like to do less. Alas, so would I, but we have dependents to think about. Real world adulting sucks and there is no room for the lazy.

Because he does more (in most probability) than most of his friends and family, he feels like he does plenty. But completely fails to appreciate how much work two small people plus a household can generate.

What happens at the weekend?

You mention medical appointments -do your children have health problems?

@BertrandRussell They both have health problems which require 3-4 medical appointments each per year, restrictive diets and ointments to be applied to them day and night.

Any child needs twice yearly dentist appointments, opticians, vaccinations and shoe changes - this isn’t exactly a weekly job but why is only one person out of two who both live their dcs only expected to be responsible for this?

In our household, DH is FT with a long commute and doesn't get home until after 7pm.
I'm also FT but have a short commute, I pick up toddler on way home so we're home by 5pm. I then cook, bath toddler and put her to bed. I tidy up, load dishwasher, do laundry. DH helps if I delegate. I do the shopping online at weekends and we both get extra bits in the week. He does bins and recycling and any DIY jobs like changing light bulbs.

In the mornings I get up early with toddler, get her breakfast and ready for nursery, DH drops her at nursery.

He does all finances, admin, bills, car stuff, helps out with housework when asked to. I could get a cleaner but choose not to (more hassle!) so I do most of the cleaning and all the cooking.

It works for us.

If you're unhappy why not have a chat about roles and who does what, so you're not resentful?

I suggested it. He was resistant and said he felt like I was treating him like I would in work.

I asked him to give it a try. We switch of tv have a cup of tea and buscuits.

Half an hour and we are done. He really like it's now and it means we are actually talking now about decisions plans goals etc. Rather than just assuming the other one knows. We feel more like a team I don't nag and he really gets how much stuff I was actually doing and thinking about.

I totally get it OP. My DH is the same - pulls his weight physically but doesn't do ANY of the mental load, no matter how many times I talk to him about it. And he's one of the good ones, imo. It's pretty exhausting.

Thanks maybe83 I’ll give it a shot!

I get it OP. It isn’t really about the granular detail about how chores are split. It’s more that when you have two children, you have to do the thinking for them as well as yourself - will they be hungry, will they get cold, if we go out they’ll need a drink so I’d better bring some, we’ll need get there by X time so that we can leave by Y time otherwise they’ll have a late bedtime and be grumpy the next day, one’s potty training so need to pack some spare clothes, etc.

You’re doing the thinking for three people and it’s just exhausting. What I’ve just written is a snapshot of what’s on a loop in my head constantly. And when DH turns to me and asks: ‘What time shall we leave?’ it makes me so mad because him asking that question is proof that he never thinks about any of that stuff.

So when you add remembering to buy milk and making sure there’s loo roll into the mix, it just feels like the last straw sometimes.

Spot on @TwitterLovesMAPs. If we go on a family outing he gets showered and dressed and asks what time to leave. I get the kids snack bag ready, pack spare clothes, water beakers and think about what time they will need lunch and where we’ll be for nap time. Plus i have to get myself ready too.

Also, as another PP mentioned, he does more than a lot of other dads we know so apparently i should be grateful for all the “help” i get.

He's got specific jobs that are visible and require some but not much head space.

You have shitloads of invisible jobs

You have not split the work fairly. He cooks? For you and him? But you cook for the DCs? So his cooking is not saving you a job. I'm guess you buy, put away food, cook, and tidy up after cooking for DCs. He swans around in a cleariah kitchen being Pierre bloody White.

He wants organic essence of seashell - but you have to remember to buy it.

Utterly unfair. You have 2 days looking after DCs. When does he look after DCs alone? Ever?

Who plans holidays, birthdays? You I bet.

Go back 4 days a week he drops one day a week and just see how he likes them onions.

He needs to take up one more invisible chore. At least. Grrr. Just because he's not sat with his hands down his crotch getting beered up doesn't mean what he is doing is ok. So he's not as bad as some. Not good enough.

I think he should be doing more of the mental load stuff.

My dh often moans about me being on my phone in the evenings but I do a lot of our life admin on it and mumsnet. If I dropped down dead he'd get quite a shock at the extra invisible jobs that go on!

People always say “what on earth is life admin”. Happy to share what I’ve done in the last few days. Two kids - primary age, no health problems or SEN or any other issues. One is inconsiderately showing quite a bit of talent at a number of sports.

Agree with dd where she wants birthday party, find suitable date around her various events, book party.
(Less than 24 hours later) Get date of finals for a sport, realise it clashes with bloody party. Contact party place (took 7 phone calls and an email to get them to pick up) and rearrange party.
Contact someone about race dd wants to do to confirm entry. (Not clear on website.) Enter race.
Contact cleaner to cancel for half term week as in laws coming.
Online course on safeguarding for volunteer role related to one of kids activities (one minute I was offering to help a bit as they were short of adults, the next I was being DBS checked and learning about patterns of suspicious bruising)
Fill out forms for kids ISAs, find suitable person to sign for certified copy of birth certificates etc
Contact dd’s friend’s mum to sort out lift share arrangement for after half term
Contact sports coaches to confirm if half term course dd wants to do is suitable. (Minimum age is 2 years younger than her but as mentioned she is talented.) Book her onto aforementioned course.
Arrange logistics of “helper” role and who is doing what.
Bloody Tesco order.
Book ds onto a sports club.

And I still need to get a present and card for a party ds is going to on Thursday.

The really scary thing is that dh does do his share. (He’s currently researching toilet flushes as ours came of in my hand earlier.)

Maybe our life is just ridiculous. Dd really needs to choose one sport and stick to it!

Here’s a link to a page where you can download a family division of labor (American) sheet which is quite eye opening!
Have just filled mine in and will share with dh later...