DS despises Catcher In The Rye. So proud of him.

[ReanimatedSGB]

I'm also rather surprised that this tedious wank is still being pushed on schoolkids as Great Literature. I hated it when I read it in my teens and am very glad to find that DS is as unimpressesd as I was - it's just one long white-boy whine, isn't it?

If definitely spoke to me when I read it at about 15, but I’m quite sure I’d have a different view if I read it for the first time now. Having said that, I think Salinger’s other works, Franny and Zooey in particular, but also Raise High the Roofbeam Carpenters, and his short stories outshine Catcher.

Of course it’s fine for someone to have an (informed) view of a book, and of course it doesn’t have to agree with anyone else. Am at the OPs terminology though - ‘white boy tears’, not an intelligent way to write

Oh ffs stop celebrating ignorance.

What’s ignorant about reading a book and forming a view on it?

I loathe Catcher in the Rye. And I consider Salinger to be a bad writer. The book is 100 pages too long, and the language repetitive and unsubtle. Holden become tedious through over representation, which is a stark contrast to the 2 dimensional other characters.

The book is the absolute opposite of ‘show don’t tell’. Salinger reflexively litters the prose with verbal tics and characterisations that are intended to reveal him as soulful and sincere, a question mark over the trashy American dream. But Holden is as shallow as anything he encounters in that book.

Teenagers are expected to read Catcher and still identify with the angsty teenage rebellion of Holden, but that’s an absurdity. Even if the language had aged better than it has, in today’s world where kids are worried about climate change and civil liberties and the me too movement etc, why should they be expected to relate to the privileged whining of a rich kid with a free weekend in New York?

I honestly thought that type of white-male-tears fiction had gone completely out of fashion

If your son is white, I feel very sorry for him. I guess he has maybe grown up thinking his feelings and opinions have no importance solely because of his skin color.

Anyway, I loved this book as a teenager. In context, adolescence was only a recent phenomenon; most teenagers would have been considered adults and doing adult-like things despite their youth. Postwar America changed all that, as finally enough families were economically secure to provide further schooling and space to grow up for their offspring (but not all, as the prostitute highlights).

Adolescence is a confusing time for many, and a book that explores that moment is obviously treasured. I don’t expect I would enjoy it as much if I read it now, but it really isn’t written for adults, now is it?

Also, awful that you smugly praise your son for coming to the same conclusion as you.

We all need to stop saying that schools teach American literature and multi-cultural poetry, because we don't anymore. The GCSE syllabus is restricted to British literature, I.e. White male writers for the most part. I'm teaching Sign of Four this year. Tonga is hardly an inspiring representation of minority ethnicities, is he?

I read CitR when I was 14/15 and loved it. I thought that Holden was supposed to be a pretentious unlikeable teen.

I'm almost inspired by this thread to reread it!

Incidentally theres another thread on here about characters you dislike in books and Holden gets a lot of mentions!

I liked this book very much. Holden is having a breakdown due to the death of his brother. I am not sure even being rich protects you from being sad your brother died of leukaemia? I find it a moving book.

Having said all that, I like it too when my child has independent assessments of stuff that lots of people have told him he SHOULD like or believe in. Makes me proud too.

Quite a lot of Mumsnet parents complain about their teenage sons - saying that their lazy, don't appreciate what their parents do for them, mess up despite their opportunities etc etc.

Which rather suggests that despite the fact half a century has passed Holden Caulfield is still relevant.

He's not supposed to be a role model. He's meant to be an unreliable narrator.

The way in which the narrative is constructed - it's focused on a very short period of time - is very cleverly done.

The novel also provides an opportunity for teachers to explore issues of homophobia, privilege, confusion around sexuality etc etc.

My poor daughter had to study 'The Kite Runner'. Where there's not really a lot to discuss. It's all on the surface.

my dh raved about this, dd read it recently, she is 19 and She Really liked it.
i have never been interested.

coincidentally dd also left my unread copy of The Kite Runner in my car, not sure what she feels about it tbh

(And I really am a bit surprised that the school assigned it. I honestly thought that type of white-male-tears fiction had gone completely out of fashion.)

HRTFT but I was brought up short by this.

I may have read the book as a teenager, but have no memory of it, so don't care whether anyone likes it or not. BUT why are white men not allowed to write or make art for themselves? Different groups have different art-forms that they develop for themselves.

I'm white, a woman, is someone going to come along and sneer because my work is by a white woman, as if I'm not entitled to make art that's rooted in my own experience?

I'm appalled at people objecting to the words "white-boy whine" on the grounds that "black-boy whine" would be unacceptable. Have they no idea why there is a difference?

Absolutely!

You sound annoying

why are white men not allowed to write or make art for themselves?

This actually made me real-life laugh. White men are overrepresented in every single artistic field save for those few which are explicitly viewed as traditionally feminine pursuits and thus devalued as a result (for example, weaving).

In what possible sense can you claim that white men are ‘not allowed’ to make art?

American literature no longer forms part of the GCSE syllabus so I suppose he is in Y9 or below, OP? or are you just making it up for dramatic effect?

Either way your racist comments have been noted . I agree with other posters that congratulating someone for 'despising' a recognised work of literary merit is an indication of your own ignorance.

I agree with other posters that congratulating someone for 'despising' a recognised work of literary merit is an indication of your own ignorance.

Personally, I think that dismissing someone's valid personal opinion about a book is an indication of your own ignorance.

You do realise that Catcher in the Rye is pretty much the first novel written from the POV of a teenager suffering from depression don't you? a child who has been abandoned by his own parents and is so crushingly lonely that he pays money to people to spend time with him? it's actually quite ground breaking in that respect. Clearly all of its socio-cultural antecedents are lost on you, OP. It becomes merely 'tedious wank'. .

Never mind, you could always try something a little less....challenging. I hear Mills and Boon is still thriving.

I'm white, a woman, is someone going to come along and sneer because my work is by a white woman, as if I'm not entitled to make art that's rooted in my own experience?

This is also just so bloody stupid. Nobody is objecting to you or Salinger making work rooted in your own experiences.

The issue is that for a very long time, the experiences of white men have been treated as if they are the universal experience, revealing universal truths about humanity that everyone - male, female, black, white, disabled, able-bodied etc - is able to relate to because they exhibit something fundamental about the experience of being human. But how true is that? How many of us really relate to Holden’s experience of being a very wealthy, privileged kid tearing around New York?

School syllabuses have for decades prioritised the work of white men who are seen as writing genre-defining works which tell all of us insightful things about life. We’re now getting better at recognising that diversity and representation are important, and that kids should be encouraged to read a wide range of different voices.

Does that mean white men aren’t allowed to make art? Does that mean your experiences as a white woman are invalid? Of course it bloody doesn’t. It just means we now think there should be a seat at the table for everybody. That isn’t an attack on white people, and I think you must be able to see that.

The thing that stood out for me is that in your first post you sneer at the white-boy whine and in the second about white male tears .I just felt you were not really wanting us to critique the book or praise your son but to enter a debate about something entirely different.
I didn’t much enjoy CitR either by the way.

Sadly soupdragon I do not recognise 'tedious wank' as the articulation of a 'valid personal opinion'. .

I can’t actually remember the book

On the white boy whine comment . I am not taking OP apart for this but - I find it interesting the face that suicide rates are so high with the male population , and emerging awareness around MH and the fact that men are less able to emote and discuss it

I think it’s a valid topic and as a mother of sons I think we need to be careful we don’t put male angst into this category immediately

I think I was too old when I read it as I really couldn't get on with it and gave up, which is something I very rarely do.

I think there is very much a time when it appeals and I missed it.

Also when it was first published it was new and shocking, now not so much.

Sadly soupdragon I do not recognise 'tedious wank' as the articulation of a 'valid personal opinion'

That doesn't surprise me.

It's possible to find a book interesting more than enjoyable. That would have been my 16 year old self's take on Catcher in the Rye. I certainly wouldn't have persevered with it if it hadn't been a set text. I couldn't really connect with the voice of Holden Caulfield who sounded so bitter.

It's only now that the idea of a world full of phoney adults resonates. I appear to be having my jaded teen phase somewhat late.

Perhaps I should reread the book!

I’m waiting for Woko Haram to rip into Jane Austen’s literary works, deriding them as “white woman tears” or “middle class obsession over the patriarchal institution of marriage”

While Catcher in the Rye is an important work of literature in its historical context, it is not necessarily easy to access in 2019. I read it first at school as a 13 year old and I really disliked HC’s attitude to girls/sex. It was hard to empathise with his angst.