To be annoyed at The Guardian largely because it is such a dump solution - private schools

[Dlwch276]

So as part of their recent excessive coverage of a book which attacked the private school system (written by someone who went to private school) The Guardian has suggested adding VAT to school fees.

Asides raising more money via tax i don't see how this would make the system fairer? From what I've seen the logic is that parents who are motivated to pay £20k+ on fees would force state schools to improve if their children attended them. Mumsnet is full of posters at their wits ends trying to affect change at their local state schools. No-one that I've met at our small private is wringing their hands that the local state schools are terrible and that this gives their children extra advantage.

Surely to improve educational equality either we all need to pay more tax to change class sizes or poorer students need better access to private education. In NZ private schools receive the same student allowance as state schools - wouldn't this be a better solution for students not able to access private education? For everyone to sit the entrance exam and then private schools to have to accept the student allowance as fees for those who can't afford it?

I wish people would stop denying that this is a factor for some when going private or aiming at grammar schools

Indeed. That all important word “some”

Ds goes to private school because his dad pays and has the view that money buys the best

In our situation it certainly does even the excellent state schools that you can not get in to unless you are within their tiny catchement which incidentally is very mc are not getting the same result

Of course its elitist in both private and state the state schools in SE London are shockingly getting very different results depending on their pupils economic background that is shameful

I know my son is lucky and privileged and getting he best simply because his dad is a high earner and yes in private education social issues are not being played out in the classroom why deny this

Some people will always have an advantage over others. DS went to a really basic comp but got amazing work placements due to his Fathers contacts. I find it’s that aspect that really helps depending on the industry or career path.

The parents saying this are in the minority at our school, but they do exist
People wouldn't be honest because they'd sound like knobs if they openly admitted being racist or looking down on lower classes.

“Bertrand. Which is the greater evil for you private or grammar schools”

Neither are “evil”. But if I could get rid of only one it would be state selection at 10.

I think the kids in dd school would just become H.ed as mainstream school can't cater for them.
They couldn't afford tax on top of what they pay as some are quite poor,
some are free, so they couldn't afford to pay a tax.
Clearly not thought through, I'm a labour supporter, but this is madness.

Bertrand, even you would have been dismayed at the literal interpretation of Comprehensive education envisaged by the Countesthorpe experiment ....

Elements of which are still present in some comprehensive schools !

And like I said, if that means some private schools go to the wall: good.
Surely you’d like all private schools to go to the wall?

My issue with private schools (and I went to one) is that if you have an elitist system, it breeds elitist attitudes which in turns reinforces elitism. If you think about the proportion of people from private school in positions of power and influence. I honestly don't know what the answer is, other than having better schools. And the only way you have better schools is if the people who want them changed are involved. For what it's worth I believe that parental encouragement has more influence than the school.

I think inequality between state schools is a much bigger problem than a handful of elite establishments

Even though those handful of elite establishments provide 70% of top political, judicial, and fiscal personnel in the UK? While being accessed by 6% of the population?

I hope the posters against any form of advantage are equalling that playing field by going down to the lowest common denominator at home...no fancy words...no culture...no debating... smallest house, no land....no holidays...

Or indirectly paying for education in housing costs. That costs much, much more than “extracurricular” stuff.

The answer always is better schools.

So why can't we get them.whats stopping us... how many years of comps... why aren't these students infiltration top layers of judiciary and government..

All you list Snow doesn’t get VAT exemption and doesn’t give the advantages a private education does.

Because the British class system has them sewn up. Private schools are part of that. Top brass in Chancery will be pissing their pants at the notion of the middle classes pointing fingers at each other over house prices and catchments while ignoring how class really works.

Parents money and education is the first line of privilege.
Wealthy parents, with large house, money and connections is huge advantage to child whether they Go state or private.

Posters arguing against all forms of advantage need too make sure they themselves are not advancing their child more than the poorly educated mum raising kids in poor basic flat Etc

No. What they need to do is recognise that all the middle class window dressing has little to do with how recruitment into top positions really works, not beat themselves or anyone around them up for providing a decent childhood and concentrate on putting an end to corruption and nepotism as facilitated by the private school system.

What are they suggesting is done to improve the state system? Not just quality but quantity.

A private school closed in our area and now the small primary school, which was already full, is struggling to provide for the students who need to be placed in the system. The local authority were unsympathetic to the parents who were in an unenviable situation trying to find a local place.

Over 30, 000 children in private schools in Scotland. One in four children are in private school in my local city. How the hell would the state system support them? Those parents are paying tax towards state education. Education relies on these children not being in the system.

Presumably some whizz could come up with a way of the state taking over an empty school and employing a load of teachers who are now looking for work. If the school's gone bust they'll get it for a good price.

Well, if we’re indulging in shameless whataboutery, I suspect we could fund a few schools with the tax being avoided/evaded by some of the UK’s rich list.

I'm strongly anti private school for a whole host of reasons. Even if I was a multi-millionaire I wouldn't consider it. My son has acheived incredibly well academically and I am confident will go on to great things. No money needed! 😊

Come now, Bertrand, when thinking of a global education policy one always needs to base it on What Happens In Yabbers' Village.

PS. Which is a good job. I'm a separated parent with an August-born and we live in a rented two-bed 😃

Actually the difference in education and life chances between Chelmsford County High School and the 'Royal Harbour' in Ramsgate is four times greater than comparing 'CCHS' with Wycombe Abbey .