To be annoyed at The Guardian largely because it is such a dump solution - private schools

[Dlwch276]

So as part of their recent excessive coverage of a book which attacked the private school system (written by someone who went to private school) The Guardian has suggested adding VAT to school fees.

Asides raising more money via tax i don't see how this would make the system fairer? From what I've seen the logic is that parents who are motivated to pay £20k+ on fees would force state schools to improve if their children attended them. Mumsnet is full of posters at their wits ends trying to affect change at their local state schools. No-one that I've met at our small private is wringing their hands that the local state schools are terrible and that this gives their children extra advantage.

Surely to improve educational equality either we all need to pay more tax to change class sizes or poorer students need better access to private education. In NZ private schools receive the same student allowance as state schools - wouldn't this be a better solution for students not able to access private education? For everyone to sit the entrance exam and then private schools to have to accept the student allowance as fees for those who can't afford it?

I suspect most would be relieved to lose their charitable status and all the aggro that goes with it. How you close a charity and not shut the school I don’t know.

How schools who take a high bursary intake will cope with the increase is stopping bursaries. Fee payers will make up any difference and the fees will probably remain unchanged.

So by doing this I suspect all it will mean is removing the privilege from poorer children who are being supported to attend.

It will cost the state a lot of money to accommodate and pay for these children to switch to state.

It makes no sense at all.

1. schools with a high % of engaged parents do well
2. if the children of “movers and shakers” went to state schools their issues would miraculously be taken more seriously.
3. institutionalised inequality is bad for society. But that’s not really my angle-I know private education isn’t going to get banned any time soon! I just want private schools not to have money they shouldn’t have. So end charitable status or pay VAT and carry on.

Bertrand Russell how could you be issued refunds on NHS bill when there is still plenty of time for your entire family too increase usage!!

Bertrand, you do know that assets in this country are not owned by the government and appportioned out, right? Private schools are not holding anything they are not entitled to. They are not subject to government imposts in the same way as, say, corporations are. You understand the difference there?

“It will cost the state a lot of money to accommodate and pay for these children to switch to state.”
There won’t be that many of them. Most of their parents will just buy an even more beaten up old Volvo and chuck the tent in the boot and head off to Cornwall a few less times a year.......

1. but the DC would do well happily in top sets or well supported with tutors in middle and bottom..

And the usual suspects would remain unsupported...

So school results may improve but how exactly do the same DC at the bottom improve...

“Bertrand Russell how could you be issued refunds on NHS bill when there is still plenty of time for your entire family too increase usage!!”
We didn’t use any paediatric services. Why should I pay for GOSH? Or the children’s A&E at our local hospital?

The amount raised from removing charitable status and allocating to state schools is so small in comparison to the overall education budget it will have no impact. It is already anticipated that in Scotland the removal of the reduction in business rates relief will have a negative impact - the government saves £ 5 million but they may have to find more than double that from 2020 if more pupils choose state over private. This represents a shift of just 3% from private to state.

As stated previously not all schools have charitable status and some have given it up. By removing charitable status you are not likely to improve state provision it may actually make it worse.

"and some have given it up"

Which?
Posters are saying that this is impossible, other than by closure

Dropping of charitable status. Also reported in The Telegraph

www.tes.com/news/independent-schools-drop-charitable-status-following-cranked-government-threats

If charitable status is so minimal why don’t private schools just give it up voluntarily? It would show grace.

Because your grandchildren may need them? Because your children if they don't already may have children.... who need them

Re NHS none of us know how much will need it

if the children of “movers and shakers” went to state schools their issues would miraculously be taken more seriously.

Plenty of movers and shakers’ children go to state school - most Labour MPs children for example. Why aren’t they sorting out the problems?
As someone said upthread, there are plenty of motivated parents invested in their children’s education at state schools. What can private school parents do that state school parents aren’t already doing?

The education system in this country is a farce. I would have loved to send my DC's to a decent local comp. Not possible around here. They are either faith schools (don't get me started on that) or have the catchment area of a postage stamp. So they attend a private school which is very nice but now to move on will have to go through the hell that is 11+ but even the private schools are heavily oversubscribed so it doesn't bode well. We pay huge taxes and get nothing for it. I'm not feeling sorry for myself because at least we can afford the fees. I feel bad for those in the same position who can't afford the fees and angry that my taxes can't even pay for others who need it to get a decent education let alone my DC's. The VAT idea is nonsense. It won't help anything. If the politicians put half the energy in to education over the past three years that they have put into Brexit maybe something good would have come of it. I'm disillusioned with this country right now.

Charitable status means the schools are obliged to act in furtherance of their charitable purpose. If they were corporations, they would be required to act in the interests of their shareholders. Anyone who can see “grace” or any improvement at all in such a change is, I would charitably suggest, confused.

“Charitable status means the schools are obliged to act in furtherance of their charitable purpose“
Hmm. Some do. Some further their charitable purpose by allowing the local primary schools to use their swimming pool every second Thursday in Hilary term, and by sending a couple of 5th formats to do outreach work.
Just give up the money. D the pretence. So much easier all round.

Ooh you old cynic! Ours is never away from local state secondaries, PE staff always doing stuff with them, Latin and classics teachers go there to teach (paid by the private school), full bursaries for teens from difficult family backgrounds,

Education is the charitable purpose, me dear. Not education of social classes you deem deserving.
Go away, find out how this stuff works, then come back and try again. All you’re doing is giving your prejudices and hatreds an airing.

I would happily support the removal of charity status of all private schools. I also would support the removal of catchment areas and sibling priority to improve fairness to all children and this includes the appeals processes.

Ah yes, nothing more charitable thN the education of the rich!

Can anyone name the nine schools mentioned in the TES report.?

I'm interested in seeing how they changed their status, because it flies in the face of normal procedure for ending a charity.

Presumably VAT on fees wouid apply to all ages in private schools, including therefore nursery schools

“Presumably VAT on fees wouid apply to all ages in private schools, including therefore nursery schools“
Why? It could easily apply to statutory school age only.

Bertrand - If a large number of private schools closed due to VAT hike - leaving only a small number of v wealthy, it is possible that the policy might actually cost the govt more money.

Private school parents who had to switch their kids to state, would push poor kids out of outstanding state schools. They would hire tutors for gcse/11+ rather than trying to change the school (which is a much harder task).

So no-one who has been to a private school is allowed an opinion?