To wonder how many elderly people in hospital die of neglect?

[Gone2far]

My poor elderly dad is in hospital. Whenever we visit, we're sorting out something. This morning, nobody had made sure he'd taken his medication and, when I pointed it out, they whisked it away. But then told my mother that he had had it.
The hospital is enormous, and you never seem to see the same member of staff twice.
I think it would be very easy for an elderly patient, who didn't have family or friends coming in, to be forgotten, apart from the absolute minimum of care.
Anyway,perhaps i'm feeling this because i'm worrying about my dad. But I know we can't be there all the time and feel helpless

Unfortunately more than you would think.

I’ve been visiting a friend once and the lady next to her couldn’t eat her food as no one got her teeth for her (I helped her out)

When I was a student nurse years ago, I was reading through my patient notes as one was nil by mouth. Turns out he had been nil by mouth for two days for no reason other than no one had taken the sign away.

Also a patient asked me to sort out day leave for them which I asked for, put in the notes and handed over and then I had my 2 days off. Came back and she was given day leave, but no one bothered informing her.

I think the best thing is to always ask the staff a lot of questions when you are there and even rung them for updates when you are not. Basically be a bit of a nuisance just so they know you are keeping a eye.

My mum used to work in a geriatric ward many many years ago when doing her training. When my Nana was in hospital, she insisted on being there for all the medication, brought in her own food for her and ensured she always had water/squash/tango in reach due to her experiences working in that environment.

many hospitals are very under staffed and the staff they do have are only human. Sometimes things get missed. Hopefully it wouldn't get to the point where patients were dying of neglect though.

Hospitals are the worst possible place for old people. I quite believe some old people die of neglect in them.

Many go ignored and unnoticed I worked in a hospital as a social worker and the attitude by some staff members was awful.

I used to try to get them (staff) to imagine themselves in that position- talk about teach empathy

My mum received shocking care in one hospital. They failed to notice she was deteriorating until I was able to travel across the country to see her a couple of days later. I kicked up a big stink and even then it took 24 hours for a doctor to see her (weekend care). She was finally diagnosed with a serious illness and transferred to a specialist hospital but I think she could easily have died if noone had been around to fight for her.

My mother died a horrific death in hospital due to neglect.

My mother definitely did. She was admitted with a UTI which had made her confused and they just wouldn't believe that normally she was not just fully rational but clever and as sharp as a tack. She didn't care for the vile hospital food and when they shut the ward for noro and we couldn't get in they just let her starve. The doctor said it was up to her whether she ate or drank, even though at the time she was clearly not in her right mind and didn't know where she was.

FIL was in hospital last year with a broken hip and he has Alzheimer's and Dementia. If my SIL, MIL or myself on occasion hadn't fed him during the day I doubt he would have eaten and we were concerned that there was no one from the catering staff reporting back that a meal hadn't been touched. Wouldn't that make sense, especially when the patient can't feed themselves as they can't co-ordinate cutlery.

I think it would be quite easy to die from neglect in hospital, especially if you don't have family that can sit with you most of the day.

I've just got back from visiting my mum who's 86. She had a fall last week, no bones broken but they're concerned by her poor mobility so are keeping her in for physio sessions etc So far, she's received good treatment. She was in the same hospital in a different ward a couple of years back and it was a different story. She has epilepsy and would have missed two doses of medication because 'they'd run out and the pharmacy hadn't delivered it.' Luckily I was able to go to my mum's flat and take some medication in.

My mother's official cause of death was bronchopneumonia. I actually believe it was lack of care, malnutrition and failure to get pain under control. It's a long story, but we have made an official complaint. Nothing is forthcoming as 'another department needs her medical records'. Hmmm, I wonder why?

The failure of care for the elderly is dreadful and for me one thing is that there is no holistic approach: this lady fell over, everything she is suffering is because she fell over. No real consideration given to the fact that she is 88, deaf and terrified, and that infections are setting in or that she cant/doesnt want to feed herself.

Quite a high number of all age patients die in hospital from neglect. I was almost one of them. My Dad was almost one of them. My Nan was one of them.

@Ithinkmycatisevil 'only human' is a shit excuse for neligence and gross misconduct when you're supposed doing your job properly and it involves other people's lives.

Most of the issue is that some nursing staff are just pretty fucking shit and are only in the job as it was an easy NHS job to get into once upon a time. Some thrived with the access pathways but others??
They couldn't multitask their way out of a paper bag and it should always have had much higher attainment standards for applicants and trainees tbh.

I get that they are over exposed to a lot of the crap so become indifferent to it to a level, but they shouldn't be in the job if they can't reset that switch to have compassion again.

It’s possible, yes.

Not through lack of training, care, empathy or anything else however. It would mainly be down to a severe lack of staff. Most of the things mentioned by PPs come down to HCAs to do (catering staff only deliver food, they are not responsible for seeing that anyone eats it). The ward I work on (yes, elderly care) should have 6 HCAs on duty at any one time. We often have 3. On a good day, 4. We work 12 hour shifts without taking our breaks (no time) and literally do not stop moving.

Add to this the fact that no - you absolutely legally cannot force a patient to eat their food if they decline it, nor take their medication, not drink their water (all of this would be consider abuse) - and you have a situation where issues such as malnutrition & dehydration are entirely possible.

My fil was severely disabled after a stroke, with no right arm movement and no speech. He was in and out of hospital a lot in his last few years and the number of times they would deliver his food in such a way he couldn't eat it. The juice cartoon or yoghurt cartoon always had the lid left on and with only one hand it was impossible to open, and he couldn't ask anyone to help him. Then after he was left with the item for a while, it would be whisked away uneaten. Nobody cared enough to work out why his food was uneaten. Also whole jacket potatoes were beyond his single hand ability. Mind you, that was just the tip of the iceberg, he was left unclothed for long periods of time, and sometimes not kept clean, if he'd had an accident. Lots of very poor care really. I dread being old and in hospital after I saw what he went through.

I agree that wards are horribly understaffed and that patients can do extended periods of time without seeing anyone. I work in critical care, for many reasons, but a big one being that I like to only have one or two patients so I can give them my full attention and make sure everything is done when it should be done. It's extremely busy but at least I know that in my shift they've had everything they should have at the time they should have. I like the nurse to patient ratio where I work and couldn't imagine having to look after 15 patients on a shift, I've no idea how they manage it.

I received a call to say that my DF had been taken to High Wycombe Hospital and it was critical. Upon arriving one of the doctors said to my DM, DSis and I 'sorry, he has died.' A minute later he said 'oh wait a minute, no, he's still alive.' He was then placed on a ward. During one visit an elderly man in a side room had collapsed forward and his face lay in a plate of food. I told one of the nurses and noticing he was in the same position fifteen minutes later I went back to the nurses station to remind the nurse. He could easily have suffocated.

On another occasion, all the nurses left their station and gathered round the bed opposite my DF to watch a visitor release a tarantula spider which climbed from the bottom to the top of the bed for the amusement of the occupant. God knows what germs it might have had.

My DM was admitted to the same hospital aged 94 after a stroke. She fell out of bed and broke her hip and my Dsis and I were not even informed of this until a week later. She subsequently died in there.

To say I hate that hospital is a total understatement.

@FiveRedBricks
My only human comment was meant not as an excuse, but to show there's only so much a human being has the capacity to do.

The problem is not the staff themselves, but the understaffing. The majority nhs staff I've met work extremely hard and are passionate about what they do.

Yes to Wycombe being absolutely shit. My mother went in with a chest infection (she has stroke damage so is half-paralysed, bed bound and can't talk).

They managed to BREAK. HER. HIP. They wouldn't admit it was them, though.

I have to disagree slightly. Previously I would have said they're understaffed etc but having witnessed it first hand and seeing how my family-in-law are being treated and given the run around, there are some pretty uncaring people out there who are just doing a box ticking exercise and have zero empathy for the patient or the family.

A few years ago I was in with an elderly relative and was caring for her, while the staff just popped in to drop off food and meds.
I didn't mind because I was able to help out and it wasn't impacting her care and I knew they were busy.
But at the other end of the bay, they had dropped off another elderly ladies sandwiches and carried on their rounds, it wasn't until a visitor on the next bed noticed and offered to help her with it (at this point it clearly was affecting that ladies care.)

Then when we had our DD2 who was premature, the NICU ward and staff were truly unbelievable, absolutely brilliant and caring and considerate.

However when we got sent up to the normal post labour ward it was an absolute shit show, rude staff, waiting hours, literally for basic pain meds, when they did night rounds meds were just left on the table while dp was asleep, walls of the room were dirty. It was horrific.

My experience of the NHS with my FIL, is that the paramedics and a&e were brilliant, but as soon as he was on the ward, the care dropped off to virtually nonexistent.

Unfortunately unless you can speak up for yourself in hospital or care homes then you could be easily neglected.

The sheer arrogance, cruelty and lies from one doctor in particular was shocking.
The level of ignorance among many of the staff was very worrying.
There were a couple of kind nurses and a rather hapless but well meaning junior doctor, but the overwhelming impression was of complete indifference and lack of care.

I sometimes escort prisoners to hospital or sit on bedwatches (basically sitting with a prisoner whilst they are in hospital).

There have been many times when I have had to help a struggling elderly patient open their juice carton, sandwich packaging or pour a drink.

Most nurses are lovely, caring and kind, but I have definitely seen others whose "caring" leaves a lot to be desired...

Yeah, you see I’d like to be comfortable in that stats of belief that it’s not the people it’s the system etc etc, but having been on the sharp end of it myself, sadly that’s just not true in many cases.

It’s the people and the system.

It’s all interlinked isn’t it? With a culture of bureaucracy, hugely heavy management structure and divisive groups of infighting, of course the ‘people’ won’t be at their best.

But no, it’s not just wonderful empathetic and dedicated staff trying their hardest I’m afraid. Those people still exist but in my experience they are in a minority. Perhaps they have become rather different due to compassion fatigue. And perhaps droves have been driven out because the working condition are just horrendous. The talented and compassionate staff seek out the better places to work (or disappear on sick leave etc). So I suspect that if you are lucky, and get the right ward or specialism or department or hospital, you may well have a very different experience.

But ‘if you treat people like shit, you get shit people’, and there’s definitely truth in this.

Im sorry that I sound cynical and negative, and I know there’s a tendency to see any criticism of the NHS as a betrayal of sorts.

However, I’m very ill with a rare genetic condition which will kill me in the end. My sister had it and died of it. My father, the same.

I saw both suffer horrendously as they declined, and I have ptsd from living through the awful and repeated incidences that happened in both of their care... and now my own.

My sister in particular had some disgusting neglect in hospital. And I was told that things were different and it was just a one off blah blah blah.

When I went into hospital for an unrelated illness, I was very ill and my ‘care’ made me very very ill for months longer than it should have done. Due to people’s actions. Needless, cruel, neglectful actions. No lessons learnt. No compassion. No humanity. And barely lip service towards professionalism.

It’s very hard to deal with when you have no support system and you’re too ill to advocate for yourself, and then you are so fucking unsafe in the hands of the people who are supposed to be keeping you alive.

It’s terrifying. Remember that young man who died of dehydration in hospital some time ago? He called 999 in desperation, and still no one helped him.

I can so see how that happened. I consider myself very lucky I survived. And very unlucky that I’ll end there one day, probably well before my time.