To tell my sister she gives me her salary or I won't help her again.

[tiddlywinkles]

I have been on mumsnet for a while. I need to name change because if my family connect this post to my last I will be outed.

My sister is a fantastic mother and sister but, she also has a debilitating gambling problem.

She has had a weakness for gambling for 20 + years. We have been through some horrible stages of her stealing money and being dishonest. We openly told her that we would never ever give her money directly but, would always be on hand to give emotional support and to buy her whatever she needed.

At the start of last year she approached my mother, father and myself to let us us know she was in trouble again. Upon investigation she had actually gambled away just under £47,000 in savings her and her late husband had gathered.

We got her the therapy and help she needed and I took control of her bank accounts. She still worked so when her salary came in I gave her a weekly allowance and paid her bills, mortgage, food shops and anything her two kids needed. The rest I put into her savings account.This was a great success.

She took back control of the accounts in October 2018 and stopped her rehabilitation journey and within 4 months we are back in the same place.

This time my parents have decided to take a step back and not help as she voluntarily removed herself from all her classes. They are ready however to house and feed the kids if my sister loses her home.

I have said I will help on the condition that she gives me access to her accounts again as I know without control over her spending we won't get anywhere. She has refused. Without this I am not going to waste my time helping her when she's gambling behind my back. Instead, I will pour my energy into my niece and nephew.

Is this fair? I feel that having the same issue over 20 years is wearing thin and maybe if she loses her house, job and car she will finally take her rehabilitation seriously.

I like the odd punt but this is exactly why I am obsessive about keeping my kids away from any kind of gambling as a child/teen.

I know two people with severe gambling addictions and both of them started in the arcades/slot machine down the chippy type scenario.

One of them gambled his whole inheritance and was disowned by his family. The other gambled away his business, two wives and now works as an evening taxi driver and a full on habit.

Gambling ruins people’s lives and is not taken seriously enough

I think you should just do the same as your parents.

I can’t decide between UN or not, but doing what you suggest will probably cause more aggravation. She’ll tell people that you have taken control of her life etc, woe is me blah blah blah. And you will be the baddy.

Just step back and be prepared to support the DC.

Giving a person with a gambling addiction an allowance to gamble with is never going to work out well. They can’t stick with that, not for long anyway. I agree with your parents about taking a step back. There’s not much you can do for someone who doesn’t want to change.

You could try asking her to register with Gamstop. That will lock her out of most UK based gambling sites. But unless she recognises she has a problem and wants to stop she never will.

this doesn't help you OP but my DH watches a lot of sport on tv, and by default, I end up watching too. We are both gobsmacked at the wall to wall advertising for online gambling sites. Literally every single ad is for bet 360, coral, paddy power etc. I feel like it must surely be a growing addiction, as in generations gone by when you had to physically go out to place a bet, go on a slot machine, or go to bingo can now all be done without getting off the sofa. For gamblers the temptation must never go away being able to place a bet, or have a spin from your phone or laptop.

It didn't work before so stop doing it. Your parents are right.

Stop robbing her of her rock bottom.

My nephew turned four yesterday and my niece is 6!

I must say Paddy Power offered us and her a lot of advice when they noticed she was making big losses. They've blocked her commonly used IP addresses from accessing the sites and offered us free advice. I couldn't thank then enough.

OP I have lived with a gambler. A highly intelligent professional, high earner, totally able to get credit cards and run up tens of thousands of debt. To be honest I am not sure if they ever really get on top of it enough to be trusted with their finances. They are always chasing their loses, trying to win it all back.
I have worked in drug and alcohol addiction and continue to work with a lot of addicts. Gambling feels very different. Maybe it is because to the outside world everything seems okay whilst the devestation to families is huge. When it did not impact on our family and it was just £20 spread out on a weekend of accumulators then re-invested, that is fine. When it is more money than you have to spare on a 'dead cert' not so fine. Do any of these people in the bookies with their dead certs drive BMWs and live the high life?
To be totally honest the person in question only managed their gambling when easy access to money was cut off. No credit cards, basic bank card they could not use online. They admitted gamblers anonymous was an exercise full of people there to appease their partners. Lots of tricks, such as returning clothes for cash to get access to money when partners controlled bank cards.
At the end of the day your sister is an adult and there is little you can do without her agreement. As a family you need to think about how you manage this and continue to be there for the children.

OP, have you had a name change fail?

Even if she won't give you access to her accounts, presumably she can cooperate by ensuring she is blocked from going over drawn. She could also set up a direct debit to pay for certain things, so the money comes out of the account as soon as she is paid and before she can gamble it away. It won't stop her, but it might make it harder for her to gamble everything away.

Perhaps getting her to see a psychriast for her addiction might be a usefull lever?..

I have a family full of addicts, addictions to a variety of things. The gamblers are the ones that have never been able to stop.

If you're addicted to drugs, alcohol, risk taking, food & exercise additions all are limited by physical ability to partake.

You'd basically have to be in a coma to not be able to gamble these days, it's far far too easy.

The worst one in my family has gambled away more than one home, more than one family (indirectly), lives alone now and this is really all they have left. Still not stopping and in their 70's now.

Not saying ALL gamblers are doomed to lifelong addiction but I do think it's the hardest addiction to quit.

And while she has no real incentive to quit - while you and your parents continue to bail her out - then that makes it even less likely she will.

There's a saying for loved ones of addicts

You didn't cause it
You can't CONTROL it (you've already tried and failed here)
You can't cure it

Only she can and only if she genuinely wants to.

I may get laughed at but there's a book, just a normal novel, called Rachel's holiday by Marian Keyes. It's actually quite light & humorous in parts but it's written from the perspective of the addict protagonist and more importantly it's written BY an addict. Marian Keyes is an alcoholic.

In this book the main character (a drug addict who od's) is basically forced to go into residential rehab by her very concerned, dysfunctional but loving family.

A pp said about GA being full of people "doing" rehab for other people. That's explored in the book, as is denial that they're addicts, their belief that everyone else is viewing them abnormally and unnecessarily judgmentally. But through the main characters own experience and path through rehab inc counselling there's triggers for them realising "actually no that's not normal" "actually I've turned into the very thing/person I was trying to avoid"

Where I find it's useful for those of us who aren't addicts but have loved ones who are, it helps to understand the addicts perspective - but not in such a way as to make out that it's an acceptable way to live, or that addicts should be completely and unconditionally forgiven for what they've put others through (although guilt at that realisation is also explored) which is very clever actually.

And one of the smaller characters is a gambling addict though it's not looked at in great depth.

Supporting the kids - who are completely innocent in this is one thing, but supporting her is not doing her any favours really.

And by her knowing you and her parents won't let the kids suffer you are indirectly supporting her to gamble - she doesn't need to keep money aside for food, clothes, bills etc because she knows you 3 will pay up, that means the money she SHOULD Be putting money aside for essentials she can waste on gambling with no consequences.

To be perfectly honest the best thing would be for the children to move in with you or your parents ASAP. Then she can be truly left to sink or swim and that MIGHT give her the incentive to quit. No guarantees.

It's a horrible situation all round, but that's the reality.

That must be horrible to watch. Unless she truly wants to change she won’t. Addicts are so hard to deal with until they hit rock bottom.

I would help your niece and nephew as much as possible. Take custody if need be. Maybe get power of attorney over their financial well being is child money coming in so you have that to pay for their stuff, any money in their name be saved etc.

I’m sorry you are going through this.

You don’t say what type of therapy she has had but I would try to get her referred for more help.

Some people have said you need her to hit rock bottom but this could never come or it could come in ways that are too serious.

I would recommend putting in place conditions for you helping her and for me these would be:

• access to proper treatment through the National Gambling helpline
• register to self exclude from most online gambling sites on Gamstop
• download some blocking software such as Gamban to prevent her being able to access gambling on her device
• either hand over financials to you whilst she is waiting for or accessing treatment or move to a bank account such as Monzo or Starling where gambling transactions can be blocked, and allow you access to check that this remains turned on
• register to self-exclude from betting shops or other types of premises that she uses in her local area

If she can’t take these steps, then she isn’t serious about stopping.

I know someone said gambling is the worst addiction - but treatment can help, and people do recover.

Good luck, I hope you can get through to her. If you cannot, please do support the children, and do not feel guilty about what you cannot control.

There is also support for families - you can call the helpline for you as much as for your sister.

I second what pp said. Make the children your priority and take them in. It’s not healthy for them to be about this behaviour and there’s probably a lot going on behind closed door that you aren’t aware of

She doesn't want help so you can't force her to give her your salary so of course yabu.

She is a grown woman and has the right to spend her money as she likes. If she is choosing to make bad decisions then she will have to live with the consequences.

Get some support for yourself and your parents and help the dc as much as you can. Horrible situation for your family to be in. I hope she reaches out for help sooner rather than later

Can you seek power of attorney over her finances until the children are 18? Are the children suffering as a result of the gambling?

You're not helping by controlling her money - it's achieving nothing in the long term.

I think the family is BVR to make sure the kids are looked after, but not to have any further attempt to help her directly.

It's really difficult dealing with someone who's financially irresponsible, but the worst thing you can do is give them the impression someone will step in and rescue them every time things get out of hand.

Another vote for Marian Keyes' books here - Rachel's Holiday is very good, and I've just read This Charming Man, which also deals, in part, with addiction.

I think your parents are doing the right thing and I think you have tried to do the right thing by setting some rules if she wants your help. Unfortunately she is rejecting your terms. However I assume your Parents are getting on in age so if you turn around and say that you are out of the picture, its quite likely pressure will increase on your parents to do her bidding which may force them to take on some of her debt to keep her and the children in her own home. So to my way of thinking, you cannot fully turn your back on the situation for your parents sake.

So what to do. My first reaction is if one of you ''threaten'' to take short term legal custody of the children (on the basis that she is unable to support them) would that be enough to scare her into getting professional help? Where is the children's Father? Is he able to step up and join forces with you and your parents? Can you or your parents apply to Court for financial control over her affairs? I worked with a gambler for some years and eventually his wife changed their property title solely into her name so he could not re-finance the home to fund his habit. Not sure what happened to them but I know he was eligible to apply for early exit for his superannuation to pay down his gambling debt on the home. Different Country but there might be some options there to help you all secure the asset for the children's future.

Good luck!

That is the only sensible choice, otherwise you'd only be enabling her to keep on with her bad habit.

It is her choice, she may take you up on it later on.

Could she be persuded to go into rehab? I was involved with a family member who had another addiction and was in rehab. A lot of people there getting help were gamblers. With the online stuff it was horrendous hearing their stories as its 24 hour availability without getting off the couch. She would need someone to mind her dcs.
The threat of losing her dc might frighten her. Telling her you will call Social Services.
But yes at the end of the day your dps are right ye need to detach and leave her to it. Ye could go to Gamblers Anon and maybe pick up tips from other families embroiled in this.
Did her dh die since she had those little dc as grief and trauma will not be helping.

The thing is you haven’t helped her by shielding her from the real consequences of her behaviour, instead you’ve been enabling her all these years.

She doesn’t want ‘help’, she wants bailing out and if you don’t want to do that then you need to follow your parents lead.

From a rational point of view, your way makes total sense. You take charge, she gets the allowance. Happy days.

But addiction doesn’t work rationally and so unless she wants to change you will end up in the same cycle all the time.

The fact she is refusing to give you access tells you all you need to know really. As others have said, she will need to hit the bottom before she starts recovery. Her poor kids.

Same sort of thing happened with my mother when I was younger. She was utterly incapable of controlling her spending. It all went on wine and catalogues and she refused all offer of help so I stopped sending her money And left her to it. You can't rescue people who don't want to be rescued. You did what you could OP, there's not much else you can do when someone chooses to remain in addiction.