to wonder if a counsellor would tell my partner he's abusive?

[lagalaga]

Or at least that his behaviour (belittling me, to the point that I am scared to say or do anything wrong) is wrong?

Or do they just do that annoying thing where they don't want to give a straightforward answer and just try and get you to talk amongst each other?

I'm fed up.

My EA exh for instance went to the counselling and argued all our problems were down to my lack of housework (we both work full time, at the time youngest wad 18th monthds). Cue counsellor spending the entire session focussing on housework and helping us get a Rota together. The whole time I felt like the reality of the situation was slipping away. We did a Rota. He ignored it after one occasion. We tried a different division of house work. He ignored that entirely too. That was quite good in a way as it gave me hard evidence that house work was not the problem..

Also ended up with counsellor grilling me on why I had reacted as I did yo him doing a disappearing act and wad totally uncontactable. I was worried at the time if he was ok!

From experience, he won't ever realise what he's doing is wrong. It's not a conscious decision he's made to have an abusive personality, it's just who he is. They do not see it as an issue, they constantly believe they're right and/or justified. The sooner you see and accept that the better in my opinion, and better for your children. I know it's so hard because you see so many days or moments where he'll be fantastic in sure and it makes you think "if I just make him see" or "it's not so bad" or "but he's great most of the time" but honestly it never ends. One day you will make the best decision for you and your children, and you will be so happy and out of this horrible woods he puts you through time again.

I don’t know how they would know unless the abuser is totally honest, which is probably unlikely.
I would assume a good counsellor would be able to get the person to reflect on their behaviour and how it impacts on others but they need openness and honesty in the first place.

Gaslighting example:

He blocks the doorway with his body and refuses to move. You ask nicely. You demand to be let out. You start crying. You beg him to let you out. He refuses. When you're at breaking point you push past him and run to the loo and lock yourself in to get away from him.

When you come out he looks at you as if you've done something terrible to him. You start to believe you must have done.

You don't bring it up in counselling because you feel ashamed and confused.

But he brings it up. And does it in such a way to imply you're violent towards him.

You tell the truth and say you feel so ashamed because you've never pushed anyone before.

He looks astounded. He changes the subject somehow. You're not able to process what just happened.

And because the counselor didn't say anything, it reinforces his version of events. You think it must be you at fault.

So the next time he does it, you're too scared to push past him. You have to stay in the room until he's ready to let you out.

Counselling can be fantastic but not couples counselling when one member is abusive.

Stop going to couples counselling and have your own. It would be worth you understanding your own issues and checking boundary setting, self esteem etc. We are never to blame for what arseholes do, never, ever - but it can be really helpful to get your arsehole detector polished up and firing fully.

Oh wrybread that's the sort of thing my exh would do! Also throwing my stuff about until I try to stop him, at which point he pushed me "back".

Ime definitely not. The counsellor is there to support both parties, which ends up validating the abuser as what he hears is it's BOTH your fault, which is what he's been telling you all along.

Blackteasplease sending you some unmumsnetty hugs.

I now have a lovely non abusive dh.

I highly recommend getting a good psychotherapist rather then a counsellor and having individual counselling. Also signing up to the Freedom Programme and/or reading Lundy Bandicroft's book "Why Does He Do That?"

You should never ever go to couples counselling with an abuser. I know, I did. It was terrible.
The counsellor though he was lovely and loved listening to him spewing lies, it was enough to make a cat sick.
He was addicted to counselling because he could tell the counsellor poop and get them to be all sympathetic.

PS. If you do go to counselling on your own, do not go unless it is a counsellor with specialist abuse training. Not an ordinary counsellor, because they are not trained to deal with abuse situations.Further advice from Womens' Aid, they can give you a list x

I am a therapist who works with survivors of domestic violence. Please don’t go to couples therapy with him. No reputable counsellor would agree to seeing you as a couple if they knew there was abuse, it just doesn’t work and gives the abuser another way of abusing. If you think it might be helpful, then go alone.

I went to couples counselling with an abuser. He didn't try to hide it at all. In the end I went to see her alone (after about 6 joint sessions) and she told me to leave him. She told me he would break me. She said she knew his type and he would not change.

So I left him. Best thing I ever did. Good luck OP

@sirmione16 you've honestly hit the nail on the head. He has no idea he's in the wrong.

Don’t waste time telling your partner he is abusive, he already knows that.
Put your energy into leaving him and starting a new, safe life.

Agree with kittens, it needs specialist training so look for someone who has worked with and been trained by women’s aid or rape crisis or a similar organisation.

Agree with pp who recommended Lundy Bancroft's book. Some really interesting examples of how abusive men think, and how they justify their behaviour.

lagalaga counselling won't make him admit the abuse if he already refuses to see it.

He'll have loads of coping/self protective mechanisms in place to tell himself that he's the victim etc or that the problem is you.

I wanted my ex to see it because I wanted him to change. But the truth is that it works for him. I can already see him doing similar early steps to abuse with his current dp.

Abusers rarely change.

Those that do, do so because it longer works for them, it costs them too much. Even those who try to change often give up after a few weeks or months.

It's hard to really look at yourself and own your abusive behaviour. Most abusers don't want to face it.

It's easier to walk away and start with someone else, than to do the hard work. And that means that abusers tend to keep abusing. Sadly some even learn how to do it "better" so that it's even harder for their new dp to spot

Oh thanks wrybread. You too, even if no longer needed

I've read the Lundy Bancroft book which was quite a revelation.

I have had counselling, which was great for me, as I must have had a vg counsellor. Got me through the tricky time of actual leaving.

The bit about the only circumstances in which they might - and its only left as theoretically possinle- change is really eye opening. Where they accept their wrong doing to the extent that they realise all the knock on effect of it - that "your lack of sexual interest in him and the children's tenancy to prefer you" are down to his abusive behaviour. Certainly not the cause of or excuse for it!

If you want to do this, you should tell the counsellor in advance that this is what’s happening and the role that you want the counsellor to take.

^ you can't do this. Do individual work, not couples. It won't end well. I did it twice. Both times it ended badly.

you can't do this - because?

You can and should tell a counsellor if you suspect your partner is abusive. You should be asked what you’re hoping to get out of counselling and if that’s for the counsellor to tell the partner that he’s abusive, you should make that clear from the start.

Because no ethical counsellor or therapist would have a conversation beforehand with one of the parties and agree to handle the situation in a particular way.

I did not mention anything about the counsellor agreeing - merely that the person seeking therapy is clear about their intentions before beginning. Otherwise they’ve handed over ££ for something that’s never going to happen.

He has no idea he's in the wrong
He doesn’t want to know. Abusive men don’t think they are abusive they think it’s their right to keep you hopping about second guessing yourself. They will tell themselves that you made them do it and if you only did exactly what they told you to at all times everything would be ok.

A decent counsellor would not agree to hold the counselling session if you told them your partner was abusive.