To be fighting about FIL's will

[Angelofod]

So my husband's father died last year rather unexpectedly. Anyway fast forward to sorting out his will and he has put in there that there is 10k to be split between his grandchildren. When he died we were expecting our first child, he already had 3 grandchildren from his eldest son, one of which has been adopted by another family and the other 2 are in care. I'm not saying they shouldn't get their share but do you think my child should too? FIL knew we were expecting and he was so excited to be having a grandchild he would actually see and be able to have a connection with! We were all utterly devastated when he passed. The only issue is the person sorting the will out doesn't think my child should receive anything as he wasn't born when the will was made or before his grandfather died. I just can't help but think FIL would have definitely wanted our child to have a share, the will still hasn't been sorted and my child has been born now and is still a grandchild.

to be honest, the main reason is exactly that, we just want to RIGHT thing to happen.

The right thing to happen is for all grandchildren that existed when your FiL passed to get their inheritance. Your child didn’t legally exist at that point. That’s the black and white of it. The truly ‘right’ thing is for the two children in care to inherit, I’m not sure if the adopted child is legally eligible. Your child did not exist as a grandchild at time of death, therefore isn’t one of the named grandchildren in the will.

You could get a lawyer and probably make a case for your FiL knowing about your child and morally would expect that child to have a share, but that’s money you could put towards your child’s future regardless.

The trouble with fighting a will that’s worded this badly is that once one post-death grandchild inherits, it set’s up a precedent for the future. You could argue that grandad would have liked any subsequent post-death grandchildren to inherit, but you can’t keep suing the estate because you feel it’s unfair.

Legally a baby isn't alive until it has taken a breath

A Will can be made in anticipation of future grandchildren who are not born at the time of death. (At least in England and Wales).

An adopted child is part of its new family for inheritance purposes and not part of its former family unless the Will explicitly names them as a beneficiary.

The BiL, if not legally qualified, is no better placed than the OP to "interpret" the Will and they should all be getting the solicitor to explain what it means as they will have the actual document coupled with actual expertise.

What is stopping there being an equal share and my BIL topping up his children's money?

The law is what's stopping this. He legally isn't allowed to change the will. Why should he put his hand in his pocket to give your child 2.5k? He isn't benefiting from this 10k. Why don't you put your hand in your pocket and give your kid 2.5k? Because that makes as much sense as expecting your bil to.

A Will can be made in anticipation of future grandchildren who are not born at the time of death. (At least in England and Wales).

And it doesn't sound like this one was.

@DoNotWorry what an utterly pointless comment, there is no way you can know how much anything will be worth in the future unless of course you are a time traveller? The point is, even if it's not worth a lot in 18 years what's the cut off? Do we only fight for things if it's over 5 grand? 6 grand? 10 grand? You are no more capable of telling the future than my cat!

@NicoAndTheNiners that was kinda my point

It's not worth fighting over, but I am with the OP.
The will is poorly worded (home done?).

My DGM passed away while we were going through the adoption process. When we did adopt my DM and DA passed on the same as all the other GGC received as they said it is what DGM would have wanted.

But not worth fighting over. Life is too short.

I sincerely hope that posters saying for the BIL to "bend the rules" about the estate distribution never follow their own advice, should they ever become Executors - otherwise I hope they feel the full extent of a criminal prosecution should it be the case.

I've seen laymen advice lead people into all sorts of tangles but the idea of knowing what the will instructs then choosing to avoid proper legal advice and just "bending the rules" to do what a particular Executor thinks is right.. is mind boggling. Even my preteen child knows enough about law to know you just can't do that legally. And if you're talking morally... Is interpreting someone's will how you think it was intended Vs how it was actually captured and written morally defensible either?

OP, I hope this thread serves as a future warning to others who may consider doing something which might end up in criminal prosecution later down the line, even if you don't seem to understand that (at least in English law, I can't speak for Scotland or elsewhere) you have no claim here.

TeenTimesTwo but that is not relevant because it was adults agreeing to vary the distribution, which they can IF everyone agrees/are of age.

I'm ducking out if this thread now, the legal idiocy is too much to handle.

@Angelrules7

I think you are coming across very badly in this post. I understand you want to do whats right (as youve said in your posts), but you know that legally, the will is clear. You say your FIL was so excited to meet your unborn child - if he was so excited, why didnt he change the will to include the unborn child?

The comment about why your child should 'suffer' - i wont even comment on it because thats just a despicable and vile thing for you to say. The children are in care while your child has a family - shame on you. These are your nieces/nephews!

I would advise to speak to a lawyer - because you seem to need verification that you are wrong. And good luck. Its true when they say money does bring out the absolute worse in people.

Angelrules
I know a lot of posters have been really rude but I hope you get some 'comfort' to know that so many people think your brother is doing the right thing. (Depending what he does with the adopted child)
Naturally you want your kid to get some money but if you can accept that it's correct legally and morally that he hadn't then you can stop letting this bug you and you can get on with the rest of your life.

However much you think your FIL would have wanted to include your child the fact is that he didn't and I would bet that the one thing he DEFINITELY would not have wanted and that would be for you all to fall out over this. I think you should consider that if you genuinely want to consider what he would have wanted.

Ugh sorry for crap English and typos

I have been involved with a will lately, my own Mothers. Morality and doing the right thing does not come in to it at all. It’s all about the wording and what is legally binding. One child instead of six inherits and we are talking about 50k each here. Now of my Mothers six dc I can say hand on heart three would have shared it equally, two would not have shared a penny and one is an unknown in all honesty. Unfortunately for us it was one of the two who lack any kind of moral compass who inherited. I’m lucky in that a good friend is a soliciter so she advised me for free.

You may be able to get a thirty minute free appointment with a soliciter which I would advise.

@NCjustforthisthread how dare you insinuate he wasn't excited? He was over the moon that he would finally get a grandchild that wouldn't be snatched away from him because their parents couldn't be bothered. He didn't put our child in his will because he didn't realise he was going to die so suddenly. Ideas a car crash that killed him so it was completely unexpected and I guess my child would have been included in the umbrella of "my grandchildren" had my FIL lived to his expected age.

Also saying you won't comment on something and then saying it's vile? So you are commenting on it then?

The adopted grandchild is no longer a grandchild in law though? I'd phone a solicitor and ask what rights your unborn dc had at the time of his death.

Citizens advice has advised a free 30 minute appointment with a solicitor in our area. They have said that the adopted child cannot be included in a family will unless separately named as they are no longer a relative if the deceased. So if anything my BIL needs to be made aware if this if nothing else!

So touching that you are so thrilled the adopted child will also get nothing. I guess the knowledge that they were still loved and cared about by their birth family wasn’t worth as much as £2.5k for your child.

@DonuytCone where have you got that from? It doesn't please me that the adopted child will get nothing, simply a fact.

I don’t think you sound grabby and think you are getting a hard tube here. You are putting money away for your child’s future. Also I do think heavily pregnant makes a difference as your fil would have probably be thinking of your baby as a baby by then and therefore his gc imo. Also it’s not your fault his other gc are in care so think that’s not really a fair reason to stop your dc benefiting.

It seems likely that legally only the two children in care are entitled to a share of the £10k, so £5k each.

So you have one child that you want to benefit, who isn't currently entitled, and BIL has one child who he wants to benefit who isn't currently entitled.

The £10k left to the 2 children in care cannot be touched. However, there is nothing stopping your DH and BIL giving £5K each from their share of the proceeds of the will to your DS and adopted DC.

You seem to be gloating about adopted DC not being entitled. However this does not change matters with regard to your DS or give your DS any additional entitlement. The £10k for "grandchildren" can be shared between the 2 children in care only.

This is a legal issue, and not a moral judgement call.

(This all assumes that the will did not specifically have a clause re unborn children, which I presume it did not, and that the adopted child had already been adopted at the time of FILs death)

I didn't think CAB would be able to do much for you OP. But yeah, you and your brother both could do with speaking to (separate) solicitors.

I wish MN would make their mind up around these things.

Last week there was a post from someone who's children had inherited from Grandad (named in will) and her sister who didn't have children at the time and had stated that children weren't on her agenda, had a child years later and wanted some of the inheritance.

There were a lot of posters advising the OP that she should remortgage, give her sister the money etc when the children were actually named, and not calling the sister grabby, yet this OP has been flamed for asking the question when her FIL knew that the child was due to be born.

In all fairness, there were just as many people wading in to support the OP on that thread, and dozens pointed out that executors have no right to vary the will to better reflect what they think is fairer. And MN has thousands and thousands of active posters. There's sometimes going to be divergence of opinion when different people talk about similar circumstances, because you're not always going to get the same individuals posting.

Also I think the OP is getting a bit singed here because of the comment that her child shouldn't suffer just because he's not in care. That was very ill-advised, and the OP in the thread the other week didn't come out with anything that thoughtless.

Angelofod, sorry, but I find this sentence of yours very wrong: ' Why should my child suffer just because he's not in care? ' Also, the money was bequested to FIL's grandchildren. At the time of your FIL's death, your child did not exist in the eyes of law.
YABVU.
I find it a bit unfair when money is left to grandchildren, not children, as in your family's case, there were grandchildren only from one son, so other son (your OH) got nothing from his dad. But that was your FIL will, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I am certainly not gloating, I just thought people following the thread would like to know any outcomes!

Well can the bil be prevented from breaking the rules and passing money to his biological, now adopted, child?
I don’t see how it’s ok for him to (legally) exclude the OP’s child but still (illegally) include his other child. I can see why he’d want to (guilt perhaps) but he can’t have it both ways.
If you think an executor is acting illegally, what recourse have you?