To think school is just crap

[moanymoaner]

I mean why in 2019 are we still teaching children the same generic subjects , making them choose what they want for a future at 14 when they care about nothing and making them sit exams at 15/16 that they will have to rely on for jobs for the rest of their lives!!

As time goes on the more appealing home Ed is becoming , if nothing else than my children being victims of other people's horrors!

I'm genuinely interested in people's thoughts around it . Also I'm not by any means dissing teachers , it's government policy not teachers .

MacDonalds isn't a bad place to work tbh. But I'd hate to think it was the pinnacle of someone's hopes and dreams at 14

"Pointless" GCSEs should be scrapped, says senior MP:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47149808

That's nice and motivating for the teachers. What an arsehole

Fazackerley

I might be all they can do, though. It's not such a bad job and they could get promoted.
Most entry level jobs are what some people aspire to when they don't have an abundance of GCSE's.
My ds2 will never reach the dizzy heights of a stellar career and the pay to match, he didn't get a level 3 in anything at school.
He works in a call centre and has just finished the management training, he'll go up a bit ito wage.

I'd like to know what is considered as a pointless GCSE. surely, they all have a point to someone.

I guess the problem is there is no one size fits all solution. When I look back at the time i spent forced to study subjects that I had no aptitude for and couldn't improve (art,design, music) or had no interest in and have never used since (3 years of french and five of german) it was a colossal waste of everyone's time. Agree that maths science and english shold be core but other subjects purely option for those that want to study them. And even then these core subjects need updating. Shakespeare for example nearly turned me of literature for life.

Look up 'Enquiry Based Learning.' We are very lucky that the curriculum where we live follows this. It's fabulous. Yes school is important, yes getting information into children is important and this is a better way, imo.

The things I learned in elementary that remain embedded in my head are the projects I did, where I had to research things myself rather than being given the information to remember. Gears, Forest Fires, Cystic Fibrosis, and Taste buds- I'm looking at you.

OP

Maybe it is the way things are taught you object to. Some subjects are more suited to practical lessons, others not so much but most schools you have a classroom and a subject to teach.

Also some children love practicals others hate them. Some will mess around and learn nothing.

FoulMouthedMotherFigure

funny that he wants a measure of progress, but can't say what it would be.

And we have only just scrapped leveled tracking from KS2 to KS4 on the whim of another bloody MP.

Somebody at the BBC must be following this thread!

Today's offering is, "Overhaul England's 'narrow' A-levels, says top scientist":

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47199896

I guess the problem is there is no one size fits all solution. When I look back at the time i spent forced to study subjects that I had no aptitude for and couldn't improve (art,design, music) or had no interest in and have never used since (3 years of french and five of german) it was a colossal waste of everyone's time. Agree that maths science and english shold be core but other subjects purely option for those that want to study them. And even then these core subjects need updating. Shakespeare for example nearly turned me of literature for life.

I'm a strong advocate for a system where you take some kind of formal tests throughout the school years, and only move on if you reach required standards. I.e. have a literacy test (maybe similar to the 11+) BEFORE you move onto studying the shit out of a Shakespeare play. Have a numeracy test (again like the 11+) before you move on to pythagoras, algebra, simultaneous equations, etc. That way, the school lessons would continue in the basics until they were mastered, rather than just ploughing on regardless and kids would get a certificate of basic competency - after all the 11+ exams are generally regarded to be at a similar level to the foundation GCSEs. Just what is the point in giving lessons in foreign languages, humanities or sciences to kids who can barely read and write. It makes no sense. School lessons should build up to new levels, new subjects, etc only when certain skills have been mastered. Otherwise you're just setting the kids up to fail.

I don't think school is pointless, I think in the early years they should be exposed to as many subjects as possible to see if they develop an interest or skill in that area.
I don't really like the idea that assessment should be all exam based as this does not suit everyones skills, someone can be bright but crap at exams, someone else can be great at them but on a practical level be crap. I think at school level there should be a good mixture of academic and vocational and all kids should try both at this stage.

I do agree that everyone should have degree level qualifications but I disagree with what seems to be the norm to get it i.e GCSES, A Levels, Degree. More emphasis should be on the level of qualification rather that the traditional route.
Professional qualifications can go up to and beyond degree level and these can be done in the workplace.

I have worked in a sixth form, I was worried by the amount of students doing this and going on to Uni because its what you do, they didnt know what they wanted to do with their lives. One student was struggling to find the degree she needed, when I asked what she wanted to do, she described a vocational job that she'd done during work experience. We researched the job, it didnt need a degree, she could have applied and got the job straight after her GCSE's and been qualified by the time she'd done the A levels she hadnt even needed in the first place.
Sometimes where schools fail is not having the time to fully inform kids of all the routes available to them or how to find out.

I don't think there is anything wrong with kids not knowing what they want to do and doing a degree for the interest and life experience. I thought we were trying to put less pressure, not more by insisting they must only do the best degree from the best uni? My uni was shit and my degree useless ,went into publishing for 7k a year. Loved it all and would doit again in a heartbeat.

Yes maths and english are core skills but why restrict access to apprenticeships for people who cannot achieve the equivalent of a grade C

Ds is in a class of about 26 doing a level 2 trade.

The level 3 only ever has 3 or 4 people in it.

Ds is top of his class. Average mark for his assessments and tests is 97.5%

Ds will not be one of the 3 or 4 people able to progress because he will not pass his English GCSE.
He will not be able to do the apprenticeship.

As for school preparing you for the real world.

In what way? I only got through school because I knew once I was done with school life could begin.

I hated school. I left with no qualifications

School now is a one size fits all and if you have a SEN or don’t want to go to Uni or work in an office then it really isn’t for you.

What did you hate about it Olivers ?

Everything. Others pupils, (don’t think I spoke to anyone after the first year there), the teachers, the subjects I had to study, the fact you had to stay in that one place between 9am -4pm Monday to Friday.
The homework which was 3 subjects per night which was supposed to be an hour each subject always seemed to take much longer. Plus weekend homework which was so much more.

Couldn’t wait to leave and was so happy when I left.
It was like someone handing my life to me.

Never wanted to go to the school in the first place.

olivers

Would ds be able to do Functional Maths and English, I ask as this is an equivalent. It was good enough to get me into teaching, so should be fine for an apprenticeship. I too would never pass a GCSE, I just don't have it in me.

Olivers, so what do you do in the real world- has having no qualifications hindered you at all?

In my experience, school alone doesn't prepare you for the real world, but it helps more than staying at home. Speaking to other people, both your peers and elders is a pretty vital skill and staying in one place all day is also a factor in many jobs.

Hard work, persistence, overcoming challenges, working in a team, being part of a large community, learning to tolerate others, meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, following rules, breaking rules and taking the consequences, discipline, opportunities to debate current affairs with people of differing opinions, public speaking opportunities, etc. etc. All experiences which are helpful in my real world.

Oh, and that's not to mention the qualifications which for most conventional careers are also essential.

I have 7 gcses. 4 are subjects I enjoyed and were interested in. 3 are subjects I had zero interest in but were ones I was required to take. 4 I got good grades. 3 I got bad grades. Take a wild guess at which 3 subjects I got the bad grades in?
Back then we generally did less gcses (7 was about it) and you usually could only pick one subject from each 'type'. So you couldn't do dance and drama. Or textiles and painting. Or history and RE. Etc. You had to do a bit of everything really. Most 14 year olds have no clue what they want to do with their lives but they know what interests them and what doesn't. It seems even now (with more variety of subjects) the teen who loves technology can't do more than one tech-y subject or the arty kid more than one art subject etc. But they do have to do a subject they have zero interest or ability in.
I would like to see more done in schools that aren't about getting a gcse at the end of it but just experience, fun and useful life knowledge. Every term or half term should have the chance to do something that isn't about the exam and grade at the end. Something like having a school garden and growing veggies, helping plan and organise an event for the school (summer fete type thing), learning basic car maintenence. Things that may then lead on to something else - college or work related or just for fun and experience or life knowledge.

Mine know that they aren't allowed to use not being interested to do less work in a subject. Not liking the teacher doesn't count either.

Am wondering where those saying school is pointless teachers are terrible & left with no qualifications ended up in life? And what do they suggest happen? Everyone has a subject they don't get, find 'pointless' or hate the teacher (mine was Irish! ) but If parents have this attitude it's no wonder teachers have a hellish job on their hands!

So really what you're saying is you want a tailored teaching/learning experience for every child as "one size doesn't fit all"?

How the hell are teachers meant to satisfy this requirement?

You're living in a fucking fantasy pal!

I also have zero tolerance for any child of mine saying a lesson is pointless.

They can think it, but if they say it to me they will get a ton of sanctimonious reasons as to how anything can be interesting if you put your mind to it, education is a state of mind bla bla bla

Am wondering where those saying school is pointless teachers are terrible & left with no qualifications ended up in life?

I failed all my O levels despite being a grade A student upon leaving primary. I went downhill year after year, simply because of daily bullying, assault, theft, etc by other pupils which the crap teachers completely ignored. I just switched off. As for socialising etc with other pupils, I spent most breaks and lunchtimes hiding so I wouldn't get beaten up. Just 1 or 2 teachers actually showed any interest, but they were incapable of tacking the issues.

Once I left the hellhole of a comp, I basically taught myself (via college evening classes) O levels and then A levels and then did chartered accountancy exams alongside working in an accountants office. I am now qualified to masters-degree equivalence. Thank goodness for evening classes!

School did absolutely bugger all for me. Crap teachers who really didn't give a toss. My education, both academically and socially, only started when I left the awful place.

I'd suggest that if you homeschool you'll limit your child's opportunities hugely given that you're not academic yourself. There's nothing wrong with that but your DC might WANT to be an engineer or go into stem or work in finance or even become a teacher some day. As a pp said, teach the life skills at home