To think school is just crap

[moanymoaner]

I mean why in 2019 are we still teaching children the same generic subjects , making them choose what they want for a future at 14 when they care about nothing and making them sit exams at 15/16 that they will have to rely on for jobs for the rest of their lives!!

As time goes on the more appealing home Ed is becoming , if nothing else than my children being victims of other people's horrors!

I'm genuinely interested in people's thoughts around it . Also I'm not by any means dissing teachers , it's government policy not teachers .

@moanymoaner The ONLY way for a child to learn anything is in a classroom, with 30 other kids, with restricted time on any one topic that they may really enjoy... dontchaknow?

I haven't RTFT but as a teacher about to go to work, I want to explain my POV.

Firstly, teachers do not decide what to teach. The content of the new GCSEs has been decided by OfQUAL or whatever it's called this week. Michael Gove decided GCSEs were not rigorous enough so they were reformed. At KS3, we build skills and knowledge towards getting students the best possible grade at GCSE. Yes, some parts might seem pointless but learning how to learn is a vital life skill.

When I chose my A levels, I thought I wanted to be a meteorologist. I would still love to do it but I am just not good enough at Maths or Physics. I have a spread of O and A levels (too old for GCSEs!) and have changed career 3 times. My degree contained a fair amount that I have used only fleetingly since, but it doesn't matter because it taught be to be flexible, to think creatively and to be a better musician. Lots of what I now teach hadn't even been developed when I was at school (think techno music, bhangra etc.) but I teach them with confidence because I have an enquiring mind and the requisite skills to learn all about them now.

As far as budgeting, taxation, first aid etc. are concerned, why not teach them to your kids yourself? Our PSHE programme covers all these skills and my tutor group know that they can ask me about any of them and I will either explain or point them in the right direction for more information. I don't recognise the OP's description of her DC "caring about nothing" - my year 10s are passionate about a number of things, both curricular and outside the classroom.

@psychedelicleggings

It's worked for many many years so, if not the only way, I guess it has proven effective for many generations before us.

Kids need a balanced education so it's not as simple as 'focusing on the subjects they enjoy'. I actually enjoyed maths at school but I was definitely in a minority. Should children who don't enjoy maths not be encouraged to learn it then? The same with English, if children are bored by English class do we let them go off and do something else instead (resulting in a semi-literate generation).

School initially exposes children to a number of different subjects, teaching them the (important) basics whilst allowing them to discover where their interests lie. Throughout school they can then whittle down their focus to subjects which they DO enjoy/engage with.

Seems like a decent system to me.

I don't know a single teen who doesn't care about anything at school and nor do my dcs. There might be the odd one who skives a lot but I think it's far from normal

I'd like to see them being taught budgeting , managing an income , tax returns , good research techniques (I'm talking KS3 not junior school here) . I would quite like them to be taught about food and ways of growing it yes , just general life skills.

Have a got this all wrong then? Isn't the above the sort of basic life skills one should teach ones children as a parent? Call me old-fashioned, but this is how I was brought up, so it's how my child was too. Even at 2, we bought her chickens, she had a book in which (we initially) she wrote down how much the feed cost vs how much she sold the eggs for and calculated the profit, set aside cash for the next bag of feed, some for more chickens in the future, and the surplus was her pocket money. Don't parents grow cress on the windowsill any more ?(won't expect everyone to have a garden, but we grew potatoes, peas, beans, corn etc)
Why is this expectation that schools should teach so much of everyday life skills when school is such a minimal portion of a child's life? Parents shouldn't be so lazy!

Both of my children are educated at home because they have SEN and mainstream doesn't work for them and there are no special schools which can cater to their academic abilities. Broadly they follow the curriculum and are much more capable of being sociable outside of the school environment than there were in it.

Aside from my children's experience there are some issues with the current education system. Even teachers know this to be true.

Two main issues for me are that in the primary environment creativity is , largely speaking, stubbed in favour of schools striving for the best sat results possible. Children have to learn grammar that is irrelevant in high school. The testing is extremely challenging for children with additional needs. At the same time there is less emphasis on arts, music and sport. The fact that mental health issues in primary school children is increasing is no coincidence.

If my son had remained in his mainstream high school he would be restricted in his GCSE options due to the rules on combinations of subjects offered. At home he can study both history and geography, not possible in his school. He is also likely to do a couple of his GCSEs early.

The other issue is the need for every young person to achieve at least grade 4/5 in Maths and English for access to vocational subjects. My lovely hairdressers' apprentice is going to college and keeps (just ) missing a grade 4 in maths. This has restricted her ability to go onto the next level of her apprenticeship. It's ridiculous, she has amazing people skills and can operate the till system.

All these people complaining that 14 is too young to decide their career, but on the other hand are arguing that maths and sciences should be optional at GCSE. Can't you see the irony in that?

School is just a stepping stool to a lifetime of eduction and the building blocks on which you build your future. It's not designed to be the be all and end all of your education. Even if you disregard most of what you learn, surely most people take some elements and take that forward them. Don't you have poems you remember, novels you've reread as an adult, historical figures you've been interested in enough to read more about? Those who go on to apprenticeships still need to use maths, physics etc. in their work- even if you are something really hands on like a gardener or electrician.

From the sound of some people on this thread, there clearly is something lacking in the education system.

I think the general level of Maths needed for level entry jobs is around ks3 certainly not GCSE.
Why oh why is it compulsory for the core subjects up to GCSE.
You can drop Humanities, languages, Arts, any other subject but not the core.
Some people may never get a level 4 and these should be allowed to take functional skills test instead. This will well equip anyone not wanting to access an academic A level route.

I don't think there's anything wrong with narrowing your option subjects if you definitely know what you want and which subjects will help.
mine knew from a very early age what she wanted to do and my ds1 knew the area, at 14.
We have another who although working ft still doesn't know what they want at 24.
It's a shame that some schools have to treat all children the same. It can also be detrimental to this type as schools have to look at timetabling and reduce choice by only allowing certain combinations.

@RomanyQueen1

Why oh why is it compulsory for the core subjects up to GCSE.

Because they are exactly that, CORE subjects, i.e. subjects applicable to most occupations (as well as to life itself). Humanities and Arts are engaging to some pupils and not to other and, if those that are disinterested, drop them then they can always choose to re-educate themselves in adulthood.

If everyone who was 'disinterested' in maths and English at school age dropped them before GCSE-level then we would have a society with a significant proportion of people lacking these core skills.

PB

I understand why the core subjects are interesting but don't agree they should be compulsory. As long as they have a good grounding at KS3 that is the level that employers would need.
It's enough to operate a till, it even tells you how much change to give back, you don't even have to be able to add up.
No entry level job needs GCSE core subjects.
Fair enough if you intend to go on to A levels and uni, I can see the point, but to work in Primark, McDonalds, A call centre, come on.

@PBo93

Yes maths and english are core skills but why restrict access to apprenticeships for people who cannot achieve the equivalent of a grade C?

We have to accept that some people just cannot achieve that. It doesn't mean that they won't be perfectly competent in their chosen career.

@RomanyQueen1

Fair enough if you intend to go on to A levels and uni, I can see the point, but to work in Primark, McDonalds, A call centre, come on.

If you intend on doing any of these jobs they a GCSE in humanities will be of even less use. Surely it would be better, if you want a career in retail or customer service (all good), it would be better to excel in core subjects to keep more options open should you wish to change careers down the line (or, indeed, just be better at things you are more likely to use in later life).

@taratill

Yes maths and english are core skills but why restrict access to apprenticeships for people who cannot achieve the equivalent of a grade C?

• I don't disagree with this at all. I think apprenticeships are brilliant (proper ones, not the 'cheap labour' variety). I think that, as a nation, we have a skill shortage in so many areas and far too many people overqualified in fields where there are no jobs.

I don't believe that practical apprenticeships should be limited to those with high grades in core subjects. My comment, I believe, was in response to the idea of dropping core subjects before KS3 (so prior to any decisions being made about careers.

*AFTER KS3 (my mistake)

Yes, my point was for those unable to pass a level 4 but are forced to resit, even though the teachers, parents and student know they will never pass it.
We were lucky and dd school said if she looked unable to pass the maths they would enter her for Functional maths instead, but some kids aren't so lucky.
It won't be needed in the end as she went from a level 2/3 to a 5 and school are hoping for 5/6.

Fucking hell it's depressing that posters think you should just swerve school if you are going to work in Primark or McDonalds.

Do you really believe that teens that want to do that don't have the capacity to enjoy ANYTHING educational? Music? Art? Finding something really interesting in history or science?

I don't think you should swerve school, but I think you should be encouraged to take the subjects that will do you the best.
Some people aren't academic and are better choosing subjects like customer service (found in Business studies) BTEC are far better for people like this and imo should be started at 14 rather than 16.
Of course they can enjoy music, Art, History but they don't necessarily need a GCSE in these subjects.
Don't get me started on the removal of single science. That has to be the worst thing for the less bright who don't want to take science further.

Surely no 14 year old's sole ambition should be to work in MacDonalds for the rest of their life.

I think school prepares you for the real world.

You can do Btecs at GCSE level already.

fresta I'm struggling with that concept too. Also that school one minute is so esoteric that it is completely alien to a 14 year old MacDonalds aspirant and the next it's just for boringly conventional teens who fit in "boxes" of societal norms

A 14 year old is still a child. To not have any further teaching in maths at such a young age can only be detrimental, especially if they already find it difficult, indicating that they probably have very limited skills as it is. If they only manage a low grade at GCSE, at least they will have learnt some basic maths from that.

I do think a functional maths GCSE should be introduced though.

I suppose they could one day be a manager of McDs, there has to be jobs at the top somewhere- not flipping burgers forever! Although they will need their maths GCSE if they want the opportunity to work their way up the ladder.